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johnduffell

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For some reason, the grenfell tower inquiry has got an american electrical expert to comment on the electrical cause of the fire. And he doesn't seem to know a lot about BS7671 etc,

Firstly he thinks you can't trip an RCD after the MCB has tripped of a given circuit (presumably they have DP MCBs over there?), and secondly he thinks it's very improbable to trip an RCD and MCB simultaneously. Therefore he thinks most likely this happened in the first few minutes of the fire:

Grenfell tower electrical "expert" upload_2018-11-29_0-3-9 - EletriciansForums.net
https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/file/2822/download?token=crUe0vAo

He also seems to think a more "violent" short circuit would be more likely to start a fire because the MCB wouldn't trip quick enough. And he uses the total clearance time (rather than pre-arc time) to decide whether there's discrimination between a B32 and a 13A fuse.

They could have got any british electrician in and they'd have done a better job than this guy!
 
Maybe the British experts guessed,there will be no thanks or glory,on this journey.
Sadly,as we have seen in the past,many,many times,it will be pingpong blame games,with no single entity,genuinely concerned with only the truth.

My own view,putting the obvious tragedy and sadness aside,is that it will be stretched out,for as long as possible,to enable the multitude of identical or similar situations,and therefore risks,to be part solved by natural replacement or regulation change refurb.

Anybody who thinks this complicated equation,will end with a definitive value for"x".....is going to be disappointed.
 
Sad really how this will drag on and on and no one will be to blame, I lived not to far from the Tower for about 10 years and used to drink in the Pig and Whistle or Garden Bar/Pub, one of the victims used to pop in from time to time and we'd have a chat, I recognised him from a photo in the papers and he was a really nice guy.

RIP
 
The cause of the fire is irrelevant, although it's required for completeness in the investigation.

A child with a match could have been the start of a fire in a single flat but the cause of the fire in the whole block is the cladding.

If it hadn't have been the Hotpoint fridge freezer in flat 16 it would have been something else in a different flat at a later date.
 
The cause of the fire is irrelevant, although it's required for completeness in the investigation.

A child with a match could have been the start of a fire in a single flat but the cause of the fire in the whole block is the cladding.

If it hadn't have been the Hotpoint fridge freezer in flat 16 it would have been something else in a different flat at a later date.
Totally agree. It was just waiting to happen.
 
How many people are now wondering how good their through crimps are that are buried in walls?
 
Standby for an urgent Hotpoint safety recall on their fridge freezers.

I'm sure every other make and model of fridge freezer (and other appliances) have absolutely perfectly crimped wires
 
If it hadn't have been the Hotpoint fridge freezer in flat 16 it would have been something else in a different flat at a later date.

A tower block in Leeds recently had major flat fire. Flat was gutted fire didn't spread because it hadn't been covered in plastic.

Most likely becuase the surrounding area was full of yuppies who don't like looking at ugly coucil blocks and wanted a cheap way of cover them up.
 
With that many people in a small area, and most with little or no money, then there is bound to be questionable electricals involved.
But good design of the distribution systems can keep this under control mostly. But the cladding was unstopable. fate sealed.
 
A tower block in Leeds recently had major flat fire. Flat was gutted fire didn't spread because it hadn't been covered in plastic.

Most likely becuase the surrounding area was full of yuppies who don't like looking at ugly coucil blocks and wanted a cheap way of cover them up.
I lived in the area, Grenfell is in the middle of a council estate.
 
The cause of the fire is irrelevant, although it's required for completeness in the investigation.

I think the cause(ignition event) of the fire is highly relevant, especially when the fire it begins can spread and affect so many people as in a HMO or block of flats.

I say this because I think that some equipment - let us stick for now with electro-mechanical like a fridge or freezer - become less and less safe as they wear out . So, if I ruled the world, permanently energised and unattended items such as refrigeration, anything with a bare element air cooled electric heater (ie a tumble dryer but not necessarily a washing machine) would have a 'safe life defined' and stamped on it or better a device inside it which kills its function after a suitable warning period.

In our household the TD, WM, DW get changed every 3 years and fridge-freezer and freezer every 5 years. Amortised over these periods I reckon such equipments have given excellent returns on capital. eg: Our latest FF cost £350. So 350/(365 x 5) = 1/5 = 20p a day - which in this day and age is pittance.
 
The London chief fire officer when he gave his statement to the enquiry said they knew this would happen and knew there was nothing they could do to prevent the control. Although was totally shocked at the speed of combustion.
How many blocks of flats have the same cladding and conditions similar to those at the Grenfell tower?
Absolute tragedy for all those families...
 
Well to follow this up, I'm pleased to say that Whirlpool have completely shredded the evidence of that expert, amongst other obvious points they pointed out that smoke can't trip an RCD in a non smoky area of a flat within 4 minutes, and a fridge freezer doesn't take 5-10Amps!
If you're interested in the full lawyer speak it's here: https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/file/3590/download?token=k-HlEZG1
 

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