Discuss help advice needed, complaint made to elecsa in the Certification NICEIC, NAPIT, Stroma, BECSA Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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coxy84

i started a job last november, it was a pub/ b&b/ landlords flat, the job was to be done in 3 stages, stage 1 was sockets and lights in the downstairs bar areas.

the exsisting installation was a complete mess with over 60 years of bodging.

i installed the new consumer unit, tail and sockets/ lighting then i disconnected old fuseboard and and old circuits.

due to the poor condition of the existing install when removing i lost power to the stairs lighting and a couple of other circuits.

i couldnt safely reconnect some othe circuits due to the poor condition of them.

me and the customer the customer fell out over issues with money and i could not complete my installation due to him wanting me to complete the job for free and the fact he still owes me £500 for labour carried out.

yesterday i recived a letter from elecsa saying that they have had a complaint and say some of my work is in breach of bs 7671


the compaints are:-

mains tails are unsecured ( layed on shelf, was unable to complete due to money issue)

stairs lighing circuit fed from emergency light key switch ( to rectify after disconnection of existing consumer unit)

incorrect light fitting used externally ( standard light flourestant fitting used in a poach with 4x fixed wall and water tight roof)

exposed live conductors ( old ceramic connector left in trucking without lid part of exsiting installation, and one of the cables that i disconnected from exististing board and left taped up is live, i belive he found this out with a volt stick.

elecsa what me to replay explaining and want to see the completed eic which i dont have as i didnt complete the job.


this is doing my head in, i think the customer is only trying to get money out of me, though out the job he was adding extra's left right and centre then complaing that the job wasnt going fast enough.


im really worried! where do you thik i stand? what will happen if elesca sides with customer?
iv been an electricain for 8/9 years and have never had one complaint!
 
Obviously you need to write a clear & concise detailed reply addressing all the points raised above with exact reasons why they were left so.

The one I feel you will have most bother with is the 'taped up' live connectors in trunking without a lid etc. You sould have terminated them in an enclosure if they were going to be left for any period of time IMO.
 
if the customer has stopped you from carrying on with the job by being awkward and witholding monies, nobody can expect you to have carried on. honestly think you need legal advice.
 
Pubs are an absolute nightmare, as I'm sure you've found out. Every Landlord, as it's not their property, want their design, but for cheaper than is possible. Maybe a defence could be that as the job wasn't finished, (due to the client breaching his terms) what you left was a temporary installation, ie usable but unfinished. I used to (years ago when I didn't know better) do whatever the Landlord wanted as I wanted the money, now it's either my way or no way. If they (think) they can't afford it then they can't have it, not from me anyway. Best of luck, keep us informed as to how it turns out.
 
Jeremy is right, pubs are a nightmare, i wont personnally work in one most are going out of business and the big chains have their own contracting firm
 
Obviously you need to write a clear & concise detailed reply addressing all the points raised above with exact reasons why they were left so.

The one I feel you will have most bother with is the 'taped up' live connectors in trunking without a lid etc. You sould have terminated them in an enclosure if they were going to be left for any period of time IMO.


the cables left taped up were tested dead cables that were disconnected from exsiting cu and the live connectors were part of the exsiting installation that i never touched.
 
explain the situation to elecsa, stress that it was the client's fault. and really push elecsa, after all, it's you paying their wages, not the pub landlord.
 
the cables left taped up were tested dead cables that were disconnected from exsiting cu and the live connectors were part of the exsiting installation that i never touched.


If that is the case then as I said before a well drafted concise letter of reply is needed addressing these points.

I agree, a quick consultation with a solicitor could do no harm.
 
i phrased that wrongly. i meant, try and get them on your side. be upfront and straight with them, be sure to explain what you have said on your post, and it was the customer stopped the job, so you were not allowed to continue putting things right.
 
can any one see any thing wrong with the way i used the em lighting circuit to provide lights to stairway? and the light fitting in porch. iv been struggling to find bs numbers to back me up.
 
Elecsa have asked for a completed EIC which you say you don't have because you did't finish the job.

You will need to show a part complete EIC with all of your test results if you changed the CU and did energise certain circuits.
And you can fully explain your reasons why you were unable to complete it also documenting your reasons for not putting into service the others stateing your reasons ie safety.

Put everything down in writing to jog your memory re the job and document the actions of the customer which lead to the fall out.

Hope this helps
 
i started a job last november, it was a pub/ b&b/ landlords flat, the job was to be done in 3 stages, stage 1 was sockets and lights in the downstairs bar areas.

the exsisting installation was a complete mess with over 60 years of bodging.

i installed the new consumer unit, tail and sockets/ lighting then i disconnected old fuseboard and and old circuits.

due to the poor condition of the existing install when removing i lost power to the stairs lighting and a couple of other circuits.

i couldnt safely reconnect some othe circuits due to the poor condition of them.

me and the customer the customer fell out over issues with money and i could not complete my installation due to him wanting me to complete the job for free and the fact he still owes me £500 for labour carried out.

yesterday i recived a letter from elecsa saying that they have had a complaint and say some of my work is in breach of bs 7671


the compaints are:-

mains tails are unsecured ( layed on shelf, was unable to complete due to money issue)

stairs lighing circuit fed from emergency light key switch ( to rectify after disconnection of existing consumer unit)

incorrect light fitting used externally ( standard light flourestant fitting used in a poach with 4x fixed wall and water tight roof)

exposed live conductors ( old ceramic connector left in trucking without lid part of exsiting installation, and one of the cables that i disconnected from exististing board and left taped up is live, i belive he found this out with a volt stick.

elecsa what me to replay explaining and want to see the completed eic which i dont have as i didnt complete the job.


this is doing my head in, i think the customer is only trying to get money out of me, though out the job he was adding extra's left right and centre then complaing that the job wasnt going fast enough.


im really worried! where do you thik i stand? what will happen if elesca sides with customer?
iv been an electricain for 8/9 years and have never had one complaint!


I think it looks like the person may never have had any intention of paying you at all, they were hoping that they would get you to do the job then complain and refuse to pay you, quite a common thing these days, only you stopped the process before it was complete and now they are attempting to extract the same result from you in any case...
You will need to make a "submission" to the trade scheme that you are with via a lawyer detailing all of the pertinent information, the letter writing will cost you about 200 pounds but if you dont do it or attempt to do this yourself you will fall short and the scheme will side with the problematic individual clearing the way for them to sue you for the cost of a full rewire and refit of ALL of the building(s) as well as expenses......I would rather get a lawyer involved to stand up for me than let somebody who is in the wrong try to shaft me and get away with it, I wouldnt give them the satisfaction...


Get a lawyer involved ASAP or they will end up getting another Electrician/Electrical company to do it, and the other installer will take advantage with their pricing and fees, which you will be forced by a court to pay....



Dont pay for them to have a free refurbishment........get a lawyer ASAP before its too late which will be very soon...
 
thanks grantr37
i will contact one today before i reply to elecsa.
have you had any experiance with this before?
im worried what the out come will be.
 
i think that the cost involved of paying a solicitor to advise you would be well spent.
 
telectrix, can you what do you think about the way ive wired up lights of em circuit and the ip20 rated fitting in porch?
 

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