Hi all. Help on part P required please.

[Carl Clarke]

Firstly hi everyone. I am an electrical engineer in the manufacturing industry. I hold the BS7671 17th edition certificate and have a HND in electrical engineering.

My confusion is as follows;
We are having an extension built which is going to be a family room added on to the existing kitchen. We have had building control involved to inspect the build etc.
I am doing the electrical work myself and I have run all the cables for the ring main and the lighting circuits to BS7671 standards. I plan on connecting the extension sockets to the the kitchen ring main (extending the ring and not spurring off) and extending the downstairs lighting circuits to complete the build. I had a registered electrician out to check my work was ok at first fix and was verified as good. I also took plenty of photos before the plaster board went on.

Can I test/sign off the minor works myself with my qualifications/certifications? Or do I need building control to sign off the work even though they haven’t inspected the first fix? I am confused with the notify part and the sign off part and now the plaster is on, I am getting worried it may have to come off again if building control get involved!

Sorry for the long thread and thanks in advance for any help.

C

 

[telectrix]

ask BC if they will accept a cert.copy from you. usually, they'll ask for a copy of your 17th (2382) cert. and should be OK.

 

[Carl Clarke]

Thank you so much for the reply, I will give them a call tomorrow.
[QUOTE="telectrix

 

[Devonchris]

If there are no new circuits from the CU then its not notifiable under part P. So just issue a MWC to yourself.

 

[rolyberkin]

You have to speak to building control explain where you are and ask what they will accept as it is their decision irrespective of what anyone says on here. It really depends on the BCO and the local policy. You cannot sign off/notify the work yourself unless you are a member of a Part P scheme. Inspect and test and notification to local authority is completely different. You could try and find a local electrician who will be happy to do a third party sign off/notification. Personally I would speak to the sparks who came in and inspected your first fix as this may be the path of least resistance.

 

[suffolkspark]

if the labc do require certification you will need to get your original electrician to view your second fix and then test & certify as a third party as I don't see how the qualifications you hold deem you competent to verify and certificate this work.

 

[Carl Clarke]

Thanks Chris

If there are no new circuits from the CU then its not notifiable under part P. So just issue a MWC to yourself.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

You cannot sign off/notify the work yourself unless you are a member of a Part P scheme. Inspect and test and notification to local authority is completely different.

I'm struggling to make sense of your post, 'signing off/notification is completely different to inspecting and testing/notification'?
It appears that there will be no requirement to notify this works to BC, therefore all that will be needed is a MW cert for each altered circuit, which the OP can issue to himself without any input from a scheme

 

[Carl Clarke]

if the labc do require certification you will need to get your original electrician to view your second fix and then test & certify as a third party as I don't see how the qualifications you hold deem you competent to verify and certificate this work.

What qualifications would deem me competent? Inspection and testing cert? Member of a body like niceic? Thanks

 

[Carl Clarke]

I'm struggling to make sense of your post, 'signing off/notification is completely different to inspecting and testing/notification'?
It appears that there will be no requirement to notify this works to BC, therefore all that will be needed is a MW cert for each altered circuit, which the OP can issue to himself without any input from a scheme

Thanks, that’s what I thought but I have read so many conflicting information on forums/sites etc I am confused. Building control are asking for the “Electrical Installation to be certified by a qualified/competent electrician”

 

[Carl Clarke]

You have to speak to building control explain where you are and ask what they will accept as it is their decision irrespective of what anyone says on here. It really depends on the BCO and the local policy. You cannot sign off/notify the work yourself unless you are a member of a Part P scheme. Inspect and test and notification to local authority is completely different. You could try and find a local electrician who will be happy to do a third party sign off/notification. Personally I would speak to the sparks who came in and inspected your first fix as this may be the path of least resistance.

Thank you, I will speak to them, then hopefully it removes any uncertainty. Thanks again.

 

[rolyberkin]

Even though it may not be a notification issue the BCO will still want to see some kind of certification.

I'm struggling to make sense of your post, 'signing off/notification is completely different to inspecting and testing/notification'?
It appears that there will be no requirement to notify this works to BC, therefore all that will be needed is a MW cert for each altered circuit, which the OP can issue to himself without any input from a scheme

As this installation is part of wider building work for which the labc are already involved it will still fall under their control. What they will and won't accept to 'sign off' the whole extension in the non electrical sense of the word will depend on local policy, even though it may not be 'notifiable work' in isolation under Part P' it will still have to subject of certification to the building control. Some labc may not accept a MWC and some may not accept a EIC from a person who is not Inspect and Test Qualified. Hence best to speak to them to check.

 

[Carl Clarke]

Thank you all for your replies. The letter building control have sent us states;

“ Electrical installation to be certified by a qualified/competent electrician”.

It is the competent part I would fall under I suppose?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

worse case scenario is you effectively have to do the building control route out of time (ie after work is done) normally this means the standard fee for the council you are using plus a fee on top in BANES this is std + 10%, (if you are near a council border you can sometimes get away with the neighbouring council who might be cheaper! i know a property developer who uses Bristol BC rather than banes due to past grievances!) They will then send out an electrician, normally a contractor the council know to be thorough who will essentially do a eicr on the works in question and check over your own results, paperwork, photos etc.. assuming no issues the council issue a letter saying all complies. It all comes down to ££££ more than anything as the council want your money, they charge you say £300 and pay the electrician £200 they have an extra £100 in the kitty.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Thank you all for your replies. The letter building control have sent us states;

“ Electrical installation to be certified by a qualified/competent electrician”.

It is the competent part I would fall under I suppose?

Might be worth giving them a call and asking if they will be happy with a eicr by an electrician who is a member of a scheme... then its a case of if you are happy it complies and trust your own work, take the cheapest quote! as the eicr is purely a means to an end

 

[Carl Clarke]

Might be worth giving them a call and asking if they will be happy with a eicr by an electrician who is a member of a scheme... then its a case of if you are happy it complies and trust your own work, take the cheapest quote! as the eicr is purely a means to an end

Thanks Gavin, will call them tomorrow and try clearing it up.

 

[Wilko]

Hi Carl - have you got the test gear to get the numbers required for the forms?

 

[Carl Clarke]

Hi Carl - have you got the test gear to get the numbers required for the forms?

Hi Wilko, yes I can borrow the test gear from Work. Thanks

 

[mhar]

This is one of the scenarios that the third party certification scheme was designed for and one that I would have been happy to be involved with. Unfortunately the involvement must be from the beginning at the design stage and then at first fix. Having a competent electrician inspect as you have done is unlikely to have any relevance unless that person is a member of a scam that offers 3rd party certification and that electrician has been assessed for 3rd party certification

 

[Devonchris]

Take two. Part P and Building Regs generally.

Part P of the Buildings Regs either applies or it doesn't. It can't be applied a little bit just for the sake of it.

Similarly with listed building consent. I would hazard a guess that Carl's extension does not fall under listed buildings. So BC cannot require William Morris willow wallpaper on the west wall. How he decorates is up to him and of no concern to BC.

If Part P did apply then BC have a remit to ensure the electrics conforms to BS 7671. But it doesn't so they can't. That includes asking for any certification, signing off or anything else they may think off. What sockets or light fittings are installed is of no concern of BC.

BS 7671 still applies in its own right, but that is now a matter for the owner and installer and not BC.

I believe the letter that Carl received mentioning signing off etc. Is a standard letter that everyone gets and once he explains that Part P does not apply then that statement will be withdrawn. If it isn't then I would politely (don't want to cross them) remind them that they are stepping outside of their jurisdiction and, if they persist, are leaving themselves open to a charge of maladministration in public office. Although I doubt it will come to that.

Disclaimer ; this legal opinion / interpretation is entirely my own work and is not drawn from any Bar / Barracks room Lawyer discussion or urban myth surrounding Part P. If as a result of anything written here you get sent down then don't blame me. And no I won't be arranging a visit to discuss your appeal.