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Discuss Holiday Chalet Advice 30Amp 1361 Type Main fuse. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Custardpie
    Offline

    Custardpie New EF Member

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Hi There,
    First post so be gentle.
    I've been asked to install a trip switch on a 2 bed holiday chalet, where each of the chalets is supplied from the holiday park's mains on a 30Amp 1361 main fuse cutout. However the owner of the chalet has already blown this fuse twice (at £50 a pop to callout the on site sparky). I've not seen the chalet, just some photos of the consumer unit, but he says there is a plug in cooker (13Amp), small immersion/water heater, the usual kettle/ toaster/ microwave/ hairdryer (not sure what the hob is) arrangements for a holiday cottage. The owner is justifiably concerned that whilst he is aware of keeping the total demand down, his visitors might not, and he doesn't want calls asking him what to do all the time.

    I thought i'd install an additional 32Amp, 30mA RCD before the CU (unless i can get it in the CU), and after the suppliers 30Amp fuse, (there is no RCD currently). My thinking is that the actual tripping capacity of this would be lower than the 30Amp supply fuse. But i'm struggling to find confirmation on this.

    The alternative is to put a 25amp 30mA RCD in, but this is almost definitely going to trip at breakfast time each day.

    Unfortunately the chalet is 150miles away and i'm off there this weekend to carry out the work, (including testing and certification) then spending the rest of the week there kicking back with the family. I think its a 60mile round trip to the local wholesalers to pickup bits so would like to take as much as i can with me to be on the safe side.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Many thanks
     
  2. Simonslimline
    Offline

    Simonslimline Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South West, Bath
    Am I right in saying you want to put a breaker in to trip on overload rather than have the main fuse go .

    Does an Rcd provide overload protection ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  3. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Respected Member

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    the RCD will only trip on an earth leakage fault, NOT on overload. you need to fit a MCB. i would fit the MCB in place of the 1361 fuse, not as well as. fitting an RCD as well , if there is one fitted in the chelet CU, will give you 2 RCDs in series, which is not a good plan. if the connecting cable from supply into the chalet does not reuire RCD protection, don't fit another.
     
  4. dazza1981
    Offline

    dazza1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    essex
    Tel how many times do you reckon since you joined the forum that you have said " an RCD will only trip on an earth leakage fault, NOT on overload.
    I reckon its got to be 376 times at a wild guess !!
     
  5. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Respected Member

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    gonna have to copy to file then paste it in save typing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Guest55
    Offline

    Guest55 Guest

    the problem isnt going to solved by changing protective device , the client has simply exceeded the demand available from the existing supply.
    there are no short cuts to putting it right.
     
  7. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Respected Member

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    agree biff, but by replacing the fuse with a MCB it would eliminate the need to call the electrician out . chalet occupier could reset the MCB.
     
  8. Engineer54
    Offline

    Engineer54 Guest

    Your going to have to replace the cut out, if you want t istall a 32A breaker (MCB), so don't forget to take an enclose with you!! If there is no RCD protection within the chalet, then provide a 32a DP RCBO.

    You really need to find out what has been installed, both within the Chalet and at the holiday parks main supply. You don't want two RCD devices in series, or you'll just be exchanging one problem for another...
     
  9. Guest111
    Offline

    Guest111 Guest

    Before you do ANYTHING with the main fuse be aware that it belongs to the site owners,they may not be happy with you altering it,there might be something in the contract the chalet owner has with the park owner that forbids this,there probably will be.most site owners take a dim view of anyone tampering with their equipment.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Engineer54
    Offline

    Engineer54 Guest

    Is this not for the site owners?? My apology if it's not.... You are quite correct Phil d, i should read more carefully!! lol!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. DPG
    Online

    DPG Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    S Yorkshire
    If someone doesn't know that an RCD doesn't provide overcurrent protection then they shouldn't be doing the work at all. In my opinion. Daz.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Richard Burns
    Offline

    Richard Burns Respected Member

    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Business Name:
    Richard Burns
    Even if you put a 32A type B circuit breaker (or DP RCBO since there is no RCD protection at the moment but you may fall foul of preventing innconvenience) in after the main fuse then there is no guarantee that the circuit breaker will trip before the fuse blows.
    A type B 32A MCB will not necessarily discriminate from a 30A BS1361 fuse.

    Even though I am by no means well versed in discrimination techniques. As a rough guide, although you would need to know the manufacturers data for both, the prearcing I²t of a BS1361 is about 1200 and the total I²t of a 32A type B MCB is about 31760 so well outside of discrimination on a complete discrimination level.
    I have overlapped a couple of graphs (very approximately) for a BS1361 and a 32A MCB and there is some discrimination but nowhere near total.
    60898 v 1361 discrimination approx.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. wozz
    Offline

    wozz Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Kent
    Look at getting the load down the 32A was presumably suitable at some time so whats changed? was cooking and heating originally LPG and now electric? look at the problem as the load rather than the equipment. if that cant be changed then go down your route.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Guest111
    Offline

    Guest111 Guest

    As someone who spent a lot of time camping,caravaning etc I've seen the cause of a lot of this all too often.A lot of sites charge a flat fee for electricity,rather than a pay for what you use system,this leads to people moving away from bottled gas as they have to pay for this,so they pile in more and more electrical items leading to the situation that the op is faced with.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Guest55
    Offline

    Guest55 Guest

    as suggested above , for small chalets and similar caravans , there should be gas bottle supply to supplement the elecy for heating and hot water.

    i bet the now electric 13a water heater , which will pull a continuous load , is the biggest culprit for blowing the fuse , the client needs to ditch this appliance altogether then the 32A available will be ample.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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