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R

ruu

Hi,

I'm looking for some help / guidance, so please be gentle as I do not normally get involved with this type of work.
I have been asked by my cousin (freebie job) to connect up his newly built horse stables and workshop.
He has run a supply cable from his TN-C-S incomer to the workshop, which is SWA 3 core 50mm direct in ground and total cable length is 110m.
The 4 stables and workshop sit on a concrete slab (no bonded metal grid in concrete) and the building material is wood.
The only other service coming into stables is a plastic water pipe and any supply off this will be run in plastic.

I have suggested all cables run for lights and sockets should be in SWA or PVC conduit (protect against rodent / horses)
He would like one light / stable and 2-4 outside lights (ceiling height approx 5m) and one socket outlet for use in one stable for vet etc. all light switches and socket will be mounted on the outside of the workshop next to end stable.
The workshop will have a ring main and lights and possibly a car ramp rated at 16a (I was tempted to spur of ring with a 16a socket).
Does the above make sense and can I use the TN-C-S supply or do I need to make TT?
Is there any other considerations I need to take into account or have I overlooked anything?

Regards,

ruu
 
You have no choice but to TT as there is no embedded grid , as for the rest good luck sound like a nice job .
I would run a separate 16a supply for the car ramp though .
 
agreed nice job!!! i would use swa and cleat it neatly drop a rod in ground and kmf at tncs supply end
load board with rcbos.
dont know about the freebie part if hes got all that hes got a bit of cash to give you.
 
When you say he's already run a cable from his supply, is this a supply in a dwelling? In which case this work is notifiable, so how are you going to meet your legal obligations?
 
TBH, i would suggest that you should advise your cousin that this type of work is beyond your experience / knowledge and suggest he gets a registered spark in. If you want to help him keep the costs down, you could help with cable runs and mounting accessories etc etc.

Frankly if he's expecting you to do all that work for free, then he's taking the pi$$. Cousin or no.
 
As said already - nice job!

Bit of advice - people with horses usually have cash to spend!

Yes run SWA to the shed, why dont you use metal conduit to protect against rodent and horses - they can get through PVC, but I would like to see them try at the metal conduit.

Out of interest why would you change this to a TT supply when you have an earth in the 3 core? This I dont understand but would be useful to know for future reference!

Also think about the socket finishes - metal would me by personal choice - again thinking of the horses eating it


Dont forget this is notifiable, so its going to cost you (only £2.50 ish but still)
 
As said already - nice job!

Bit of advice - people with horses usually have cash to spend!

Yes run SWA to the shed, why dont you use metal conduit to protect against rodent and horses - they can get through PVC, but I would like to see them try at the metal conduit.

Out of interest why would you change this to a TT supply when you have an earth in the 3 core? This I dont understand but would be useful to know for future reference!

Also think about the socket finishes - metal would me by personal choice - again thinking of the horses eating it


Dont forget this is notifiable, so its going to cost you (only £2.50 ish but still)

For the TT -705.415.2.1 , note at the bottom .
As for the socket fronts 705.512.2 , in my opinion the only way is Mk Masterseal to be sure of this . ( placed out of reach as there would be no advantage of having a accessory where animals can interfere with it any way , and 705.513.2 would do this . )
 
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ruu , are you a sparks and just not used to ag work or are you totally fresh to sparking ?
 
ok thanks DP.

I didn't see that.

Again thats recommended but best to follow BS7671 guidelines!

Yes placing out of reach is for sure - but when he said 1 socket for the vet, I was thinking a vet is not likely to have equipment with a lead long enough for a socket out of reach - so placing it in the stable is a waste if they will be using an extension lead. Put the socket outside the stable out of reach of the horse but high enough for a person to reach it.
 
Got to admit i overlooked that bit , to be honest i would as a rule never put a a socket or switch inside of a stable ( even out of reach ) unless there was a damn good reason for it !
 
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I'd agree, dpe. In fact I've just been involved with a stable refurb. All the stalls had ordinary sockets in with no RCD protection. When I suggested to the new owner we should remove them he didn't hesitate to agree.

Oh, yes the stables are now fully RCD'd.
 
I used to do a few of them and always put the switches in the tack room and a blue commando socke at either end of building away from horses,as well as rcd I used to give them an extension lead made of sy cable as it is less prone to damage,all lighting cables ran on top beam well away from horses,damn things will pull at anything they can get at,once watched one rip out a water supply for no apparent reason.It may seem strange putting switches in tack room but its usually the last place visited before they lock up.
 
use hd pvc conduit,ip rated sockets and switches,lights should be high enough that a horse cant touch them when they rear up,remember horses have metal feet so even the slightest leakage can harm them,stables might be nice and dry in the summer but come winter they are very damp and you will have people mucking out and cleaning their horses with hoses etc all switching things on with wet hands while standing in pools of water..
 
Recently worked on a farm/stables and the PME was exported to the stables block using the third core of the 10mm swa supply. Unsure if concrete base for stables has steel reinforcement or not, but there was nothing in sight to supplementary bond. This was my first agricultural job, and am just now, having read this thread, thinking back on what was there at the time. So what should/ought to be said or done when you come across an installation where the PME has been exported to the stables and the regs recommend that PME is not exported? Am no longer on that particular job (was fault-finding and rectifying, not installing) but this is a valued customer. Should I be recommending to disconnect the third core and to put in a rod(s) for the stables? Don't want to seem to be making up work for myself, but do want to be seen to be doing the right thing when advising customer.
 
Hi Ringer , tell them and simply show them the regs .
Not best practise in my book is just another way of saying do it right and don't bodge it !
Generally the wife or daughter is the one the stable is for and this means the hubby / daddy is normally reluctant to have to tell a loved one that ( probably ) the most important thing in the world to them is dead because he was a tight arse !
 
The concrete floors re-bar grid/network needs to be connected to the PME earthing arrangement, it's not just a case of having a steel grid in the concrete base and all's well!! lol!!! In situations such as been described, a TT system is the way to go, only please make sure it's a working TT system and not another 200 ohm fiasco!! Our 4 legged friends as far more susceptible to leakage currents than we are!!!!


It'll be worth doing a sheath test on this DIY SWA cable installation, there is every chance that the sheath has been compromised, either by sharp stones/debris or by abrasion when pulling the cable in!!! What's the betting that there isn't any warning tape, cable tiles or sand bedding etc, and that the cable burial depth doesn't comply either!! lol!!!
 
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