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Discuss How Many 10kw Showers? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    Last year we rewired a bungalow on a large private estate which caters for mentally ill patients. It had 5 bedrooms each with it's own wet room. The builder wanted a 10kw shower in each wet room but as the incoming sub - main was only 16swa protected by a 60amp fuse we told him no. We ended up with one electric shower and 4 mixers off the combi. The client needed a back up in case of boiler breakdown.

    There are six identical bungalows and now the next one is ready for refurbing. The builders had two other contractors in to price the rewires. One's told him that 3 x 10kw showers will be ok and this has made the builder happy.

    I've spoken to staff in the original bungalow who inform me that the normal morning routine is for two showers to be used at the same time usually while breakfast is being prepared (with electric oven and hob)

    I'm sticking to one shower so it looks like I'll not be getting this one.
     
  2. mhar
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    mhar Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    devon
    In my area it is usually concentric (sometimes split concentric) supplying the property, not swa. It is quite usual to have a 16mm feed with an 80A service fuse.
    It is usual for the supply to properties (certainly in my local area) to be an 80A supply so I would phone the DNO and ask if there is any reason for this smaller than usual supply and to see if it can be increased to 80A.
     
  3. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    It's from their own private distribution system not DNO.
     
  4. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    How well do you get on with the builder? I would call on a meeting and explain that you don't want to loose the job over some other dipsticks quote saying he can have 3 x 10KW showers. If he's a sensible guy then he will be able to see the maths doesn't add up if you put it in black and white in front of him. Due to the nature of the building It wouldn't be practical to use contractors/relays so if one shower was on the others couldn't be used. An unvented cylinder would be the ideal choice in this situation if the water pressure and flow rate is acceptable for the demand. you could use a direct cylinder or indirect cylinder. Indirect would be heated by a boiler for example and a direct cylinder would be heated by immersions. A 250 litre cylinder would feed 3 showers on the go at once for nearly 10 minutes. The reheat time for the entire cylinder would be around 2hours with two 3KW immersions so that would be a factor as to how frequent the 3showers were to be used.
     
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  5. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Ohm's Law hasn't changed overnight and a 10kW shower will still pull over 40A. How a competent designer thinks its ok to run 3 of them (and cookers!) off a 60A fuse does take tonight's biscuit. As Lee has said, hopefully the builder will get it. I'm staying optimistic for you, but sometimes you just can't beat stupid.
     
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  6. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    I'd be reluctant to even allow for 2 10kw showers never mind 3.
    If they where getting used at the same time you'd be drawing around 80 amps and that's without taking into consideration any other demand being used at the same time , cookers, hobs kettles etc.
     
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  7. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    I've got a site meeting on Friday and I've asked the builder to bring the other contractors design calc's along. :grinning:
     
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  8. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    1 electric shower per 100a installation would be my usual limit,and I also try my best to steer customers towards a max of 9kW, anything bigger is just bragging rights really.
     
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  9. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    Let us know how you get on.
     
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  10. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    No Lee it's know not no. :D
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2017
  11. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    Will do.
     
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  12. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    It might be a "no" from the builder :p
     
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  13. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    And Lee has sorted out his spelling now. :D
     
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  14. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    My spelling and grammar is awful....That's what you get for leaving school at 13 I suppose lol. My electrics are the bollox though :p
     
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  15. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    My Other Half was an English teacher, oh the pain ...
     
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  16. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    I can tell you're right up there as a tradesman Lee, do you fancy moving down here to give me a hand ? :D
     
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  17. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    lol....could do with you and your lad over this way to be honest :D
     
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  18. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    I can come and help both of you when the builder gives my work to the other contractor. :D
     
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  19. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Are awful.
     
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  20. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    Cheers mate :D
     
  21. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    Had the meeting. The other contractor had "assumed" an incoming 100a supply and said that as all 3 showers were unlikely to be used at once it'd be ok!

    Builder said he'd prefer electric showers because if they run them off the combi and they used two showers at the same time then the temperature will drop. Told him that if they use two 10kw showers at the same time on a 60a fuse then the place will end up in darkness!

    Common sense seems to have prevailed and we got the job.
     
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  22. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    Good news then mate. You could still have a cylinder off the combi acting as a buffer so two showers could be run and the third being electric.
     
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  23. ED17
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    ED17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North West
    That's what they're going to do. Just finished a 22 bedroom home on the same site and that's what they installed there. I think the builder just thought he could save some money on plumbing.

    I'll put my shower circuit prices up so he doesn't consider it on the next one. :p
     
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