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Hello

I feel capable of doing installations but very incapable of pricing them.
is there a coarse out there that I could do to learn more on the subject.
Thanks
 
Work out your living expenses per day, this is quite easy to do
Work out what your business expenses will be per day, once again pretty easy
Divide by the number of hours you want to work a day
Add a bit for profit, you need this.
Once you have that figure you have your hourly charge out rate..
Multiply this by the estimated number of hours it will take you to complete a job
Add the cost of materials needed.
That's your price
 
Pricing is such an individual thing that it would be difficult for someone to teach it as profit is a different figure for each trader. Options are things like pricing by point, for example sockets - work out how much a white plastic chased into a wall will take in time and parts, take into account every part right down to the screw in the back box and come out with a figure, and then do the same for metal faceplates and so on.... Or, a price per day plus parts and either pass on the cost direct or add a percentage on top of parts and add that to your daily rate. To be honest it took me a couple of years to get it to a stage where I am happy, and even now I still sometimes underprice!!
 
Everybody underprices at times mate but the trick is to make sure that when you take into account the ones you've overpriced that the scales are at the very least in balance. Preferably swinging in your favour though.
 
Well guys I do things totally different but where I live things are different lol.
For a start I do not supply materials I let the customer get them I am happy to give a list of what is needed or go get them but its booked out to them.
Then they are told my hourly rate which is £20 an hour and tell them roughly how long it should take. Then carry on and do the job never had any complaints and don't think I have ever not gotten the job. But I have walked off one.
I also play things very fairly because before I even start I get an idea of how much I would be willing to pay for the work and when I get over that its my loss and some of the older members of the community get an even better deal. Money isn't everything to walk down the street and have almost everyone say hello is a great feeling and everyone is always willing to do a favour if needed. I don't go hungry but its no posh living.
 
Most customers like a price for the completed job including materials, if a customer wants to buy the materials then i would give them a day rate, but if the parts developed a fault then i would charge to rectify. I find customers dont want to buy parts, even showers, they prefer you to get them. You also need to mark up your parts, this covers you when a part fails and your running back & forth to replace the faulty goods for free. I can get an rcd and enclosure for £18, the customer is charged £40, sockets £2.10 customer pays £5.00. I find it easier to give yourself a rate your happy with for the day & work from this; for example i charge £40 for the first hour & £25 an hour after that. or £180 for the day or £100 for half a day. i base my job fees on this, you will gain on some jobs & loose on others. I used to charge £25 for the first hour, but by the time you take fuel, insurances, business overheads into account it's not worth it. Sometimes loads of little jobs pays really well, rather than be stuck on a rewire with endless problems.
Hope this helps!
 
Work out your living expenses per day, this is quite easy to do
Work out what your business expenses will be per day, once again pretty easy
Divide by the number of hours you want to work a day
Add a bit for profit, you need this.
Once you have that figure you have your hourly charge out rate..

I think you're missing something here trev. By all means work out what you'd like to charge as an hourly rate in order to cover your living and business expenses, but if your potential customers find you too expensive, you won't win any jobs and you won't earn anything.

From my experience, the process is:
Try to find out what your competitors are charging, ie what's the local "going rate";
If you're new to the business, pick a rate that's a bit lower, especially if you're going to take longer on most jobs due to your inexperience;
Work out a price for each job based on the number of hours you expect to take and materials cost plus a margin on materials for purchasing admin and dealing with occasional faulty goods;

Run the business for a while and see how it goes. If you're winning every job you bid for, put your rate up a little. If you're losing most bids, try and work out why and, if necessary, drop your rate a little. If there aren't enough jobs to bid for, try and improve your marketing.

And, going back to trev's point, if the rate you think you can charge isn't enough to pay your business and personal expenses, then abandon the plan and go and do something else.
 
On larger jobs, I price per point and anything I know will take me a day or less I charge a day rate. Roughly speaking a light or socket will take me 2 hours in a furnished house, 1.5 hours in an unfurnished house and 1 hour in a new build. So I just calculate my hourly rate, and personally rather than being the cheapest try and focus on being the most professional and try and develop a good reputation, I've only been going a couple of years and it seems to be working for me, some you win and some you lose, but I've never seen the point in trying to be the cheapest, especially when around my way you would be in competition with so many eastern europeans willing to work for nothing.
 
I like what is said above about if you don't make enough to cover business then abandon ship, that's where I am at moment. Seem to be flat out but for little gain. I only charge 15 per hour and I know too cheap . I'd be better working for someone else. Hey hi least I'm learning every week.
 
The problem at the moment is the market is flat, I price against firms doing work for local authorities, guarenteed payment and your on lists where builders get told to come to you for prices, because of this and the public spending cuts it has gone cut throat, everyones rates have lowered to tick over during the shortage, and some of the companies who usually get all this work are losing out and doing other types of work. because they have dozens of workers they take work on at cost or even small losses rather than have their worker washing the vans and they hope to make money from contingency's as well which doesn't always happen, I think toombrooker 84 has it right really with larger jobs anyhow, and thats a point by point cost, it can actually work out well in a lot of cases, not so sure if it works on small jobs, you just need to know you minimum rates and material costs, once you know that you can add on what you want depending on wether you want the job or are not too bothered.
 
The idea of basing your prices on what others are charging is ridiculous, no wonder some are not making money and thinking of chucking it in. Running your own business isn't for everyone, and not everyone who wants to is cut out for it.

A business exists to make a proffit, no other reason. If it doesn't make a proffit then it's not a business. I charge a rate which covers everything then leaves a proffit for the business. I don't compete on price, and if the price is queried then I either justify it by explaining the difference in what's provided/service/quality etc. Or, I leave them to it and go on to another job. I live and work in the second largest City in the UK, which means that there are hundreds if not thousands who will do the job for stupidly low rates. Mostly because they're desparate for the work. If they're desparate for work then they aren't running their business the way that's needed, they're running it the way they think it should be.

I keep hearing (locally and nationally) how bad things are, how tight margins are etc all from small business owners, none of whom have even considered changing the way they do things or the way they market their business. For anyone old enough to remember, that was exactly the attitude adopted by the British car and motorbike manufacturers. How many are left? Only the ones which did things differently and changed.

I'd love to go back to 'the good old days' but sadly I can't and nor can anyone else. It's harsh, sometimes it's unpleasant, and rarely popular news to hear, but you either move on and adapt or get left behind. Darwin's theory of evolution is one of the most pertinent theories to runing a business you will ever have.
 
The way I do it is have a spreadsheet with TLC prices (not the cheapest nor the most expensive - knowing I can beat the price on 90% of them using my local supplies - I use TLC because their catalog is so good with all prices there and their range).

Then the spreadsheet puts 10% ontop (of what ever you ask for as commission) and the quanity you need - that gives you the price of materials - all you have to do then is think how long that job will take (from experience) and apply your hourly/daily rate to it.

Easy!
 
The way I do it is have a spreadsheet with TLC prices (not the cheapest nor the most expensive - knowing I can beat the price on 90% of them using my local supplies - I use TLC because their catalog is so good with all prices there and their range).

Then the spreadsheet puts 10% ontop (of what ever you ask for as commission) and the quanity you need - that gives you the price of materials - all you have to do then is think how long that job will take (from experience) and apply your hourly/daily rate to it.

Easy!

I hope your spreadsheet adds VAT first or you'll be selling you products at a loss.

Personally I add VAT to parts buy prices, plus a minimum of 20% plus a minimum of £1.00 for consumables. Parts costs are NOT seperated and I do make a nominal charge for notifiable costs.

Works for me. The only expection is on bigger jobs like rewires I do reduce the 20% down to 15 or 10% as the parts do add up.
 
I hope your spreadsheet adds VAT first or you'll be selling you products at a loss.

Personally I add VAT to parts buy prices, plus a minimum of 20% plus a minimum of £1.00 for consumables. Parts costs are NOT seperated and I do make a nominal charge for notifiable costs.

Works for me. The only expection is on bigger jobs like rewires I do reduce the 20% down to 15 or 10% as the parts do add up.


Yes it does - first thing it does
 
The idea of basing your prices on what others are charging is ridiculous, no wonder some are not making money and thinking of chucking it in.

I'm not advocating a "race to the bottom", but if you were twice as expensive and any other reputable company in the area, you'd have to be offering something exceptional to win business.

Being the best at what you do and charging appropriately is the way to go.


I also think that, with a new business, it takes time and experience before most people are confident enough to charge top rate.
 
I'm not advocating a "race to the bottom", but if you were twice as expensive and any other reputable company in the area, you'd have to be offering something exceptional to win business.

Being the best at what you do and charging appropriately is the way to go.


I also think that, with a new business, it takes time and experience before most people are confident enough to charge top rate.


Great point HandySpark

At the end of the day we are a service! The quality of the service all depends on the experience that person offering the service has.
Limited experience - reduced quality (or takes longer) - therefore lower price per hour.

When I started it took me 4-5 hours to do a CU change, now I can do them in 2-3 hours and do a tidy job at it.
Someone who has just started working for me takes 5 hours to do a CU change (no experience) and the CU is a complete mess - spaghetti juction. I got a CU on tomorrow so will be dragging him on as well to get him a little tidier and faster
 

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