How to send data signal from master socket to extension socket?

[simon77]

Hi,

Apologies if a lot of this is pretty obvious, but my knowledge is fairly limited.

We just had a Master Socket 5c MK 4 fitted (downstairs) and unknown to us at the time it has filtered out the data signal to the extension socket (upstairs), where the router was previously connected to and we would like to be connected again.

On the master socket an orange and white wire plug into the A and B connections and a green and black wire go into the 2 and 5 connections (as shown in the photo below). I believe this green and black wire pair brings the phone signal to the extension socket (although am not entirely certain how it works)? Note that all the wires mentioned come through the drop cable (there is unconnected red, blue, grey and brown wire).



I also read that the A and B connection on the back of the faceplate is a data connection. As shown at the bottom of this pdf: https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf

We don't want a phone signal in the extension socket, just a data signal for the broadband. Is it possible to swap the green and black wires from 2 and 5 to the A and B connections on the back of the faceplate and send data to the extension socket instead?
(I believe this is what this website is talking about doing? htps://www.telecomgreen.co.uk/engineering/move-bt-master-socket-without-actually-moving-advice-telephone-engineer/)

If it is applicable, the upstairs extension socket has older wiring, which I believe is as listed below:

Pin 2 is A (blue)
Pin 5 is B (orange)

Pin 3 is Bell wire (green)
Pin 4 is Earth wire (brown)

If moving the green and black wires in the master socket to the data connection on the back of the faceplate will carry the data signal to the extension will the extension socket need to be updated to a new one with a separate data socket? Or will the existing extension socket work, with or without a micro filter connecting to it?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Simon

 

[telectrix]

your incoming pair seems to be green/black. these will connect to 2 and 5 on all sockets, usually daisy chained. yuo can't have data going to an extension without the phone going as well.

 

[Squid]

What sort of faceplate do you have and did it work with the old socket?

This may help or not......

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/ho...wtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf

 

[simon77]

Hi,

That's fine if the phone signal goes to the extension socket, but I want the data signal to go too, which it currently isn't.

The A and B connection on the back of the faceplate mentioned on the link below says it's a data connection. So I just assumed the phone wouldn't work, but I guess maybe it'll just carry the entire signal (phone and data) instead of filtering out the data signal? Either way is fine though.

Just wanted to know if it would work if I connected the green and black wires to that A and B connection to send the data signal to the extension socket.
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/ho...wtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf

And if it will work whether I'd need to change the extension socket faceplate?

Thanks.

 

[simon77]

Hi SWD,

I have the Master Socket 5c MK 4 and just an old phone input faceplate for the extension.

It worked before the Master Socket 5c MK 4 was installed, as the previous master socket didn't have separate data and phone inputs (so the data wasn't filtered out from the extension socket).

Cheers.

 

[littlespark]

Don't touch the black and green wires there... Those are your providers incoming pair and shouldn't be tampered with.

There should be a bottom half cover goes on and covers those wires.
On the front will be a phone socket, on the back there should be 6 terminals. Any extension phone points will be connected to these 6. (only 2 and 5 are of any use domestically)

When you fit the bottom cover, the extension gets connected to the master.

A standard broadband router from BT or Talktalk or whoever will need a filter fitted between it and the extension socket. The master may have the filter built in.

Does your router work from that master socket?

 

[Strima]

For data you need to run a CAT5, or similar, to your router from the RJ45 port on the front plate.

Voice and data are split on those sockets IIRC between two ports.

 

[simon77]

Don't touch the black and green wires there... Those are your providers incoming pair and shouldn't be tampered with.

There should be a bottom half cover goes on and covers those wires.
On the front will be a phone socket, on the back there should be 6 terminals. Any extension phone points will be connected to these 6. (only 2 and 5 are of any use domestically)

When you fit the bottom cover, the extension gets connected to the master.

A standard broadband router from BT or Talktalk or whoever will need a filter fitted between it and the extension socket. The master may have the filter built in.

Does your router work from that master socket?

Hi,
There's this data and phone input faceplate that clips onto the front.


Then this bit behind with the 2 and 5 extension connection.


Then behind that is where the drop cable and wires come in. As shown in this photo:


The main orange and white wires go into the A and B connections.

Then the green and black wires go through the hole and connect to the 2 and 5 (extension) in the middle photo part.

So it's got a filtered front plate (with an A and B data connection behind).
You clip that off and the 2 and 5 extension connection are behind it.
Then you unscrew that and the main A and B connection are at the back.

I might be confused with what's happening though as the extension socket upstairs doesn't connect directly to the master socket. It connects outside. And the only input into the master socket is the drop wire. I'm assuming that that green and black wire (which is for an extension) connects to the outside and then back to the extension socket upstairs? Or is it just redundant??

The router does work from the master socket. However, I would like it to be upstairs where the PC is (WiFi and running a cable around the house aren't an option).

Thanks.

 

[rsgaz]

The orange and white are your incoming line. Don't change those.

Take the black and green wire out of 5 and 2 and move them to the other A and B connector, on the back of the very first/front part which came off...



Put black in A, green in B. (you should snip about 5mm off each wire beforehand, so the IDC connection gets a 'fresh' bit of wire to bite).

The upstairs socket does not need changing, but you will need a microfilter if it's an 'ordinary old phone socket', your modem lead has an RJ11 connector, not a BT plug.

 

[Loki]

Hi,

The MK4 has a built in adsl filter & this means you must connect your modem to the MK4

Do not connect another adsl filter at the modem end.



Why do I need ADSL filters (microfilters) and where do they go? | BT help - http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/635/related/1

from bt website ignore it says hub their on about their home hub:

You must always plug your Hub into the broadband connection on your master socket. If you plug it into a phone socket or extension, it just won't work.

You don't need microfilters - not for your Hub or any other devices connected to phone sockets or extensions.

 

[simon77]

The orange and white are your incoming line. Don't change those.

Take the black and green wire out of 5 and 2 and move them to the other A and B connector, on the back of the very first/front part which came off...

View attachment 45416

Put black in A, green in B. (you should snip about 5mm off each wire beforehand, so the IDC connection gets a 'fresh' bit of wire to bite).

The upstairs socket does not need changing, but you will need a microfilter if it's an 'ordinary old phone socket', your modem lead has an RJ11 connector, not a BT plug.

Hi Rsgaz,

Thanks. That was what I was thinking might work.

Does it matter that the black and green wire in the master socket are from the drop wire that comes in from outside (and not internal wiring)? I'm guessing the master socket connection to the extension socket must be made outside?

Cheers!

 

[rsgaz]

Loki,

They are giving general instructions for a "typical", straightforward installation. There are more options than that available.

The MK4 has a built in adsl filter

Agreed.

this means you must connect your modem to the MK4

Nope, the A&B on the back of the Mk4 faceplate bypass the filter, so you can send the signal wherever you want in the house.

You must always plug your Hub into the broadband connection on your master socket. If you plug it into a phone socket or extension, it just won't work.

That is only true for how simon77 has it wired now. After he has done the changes I said, the unfiltered signal will be available upstairs, so you certainly can have the "hub" in an extension.

 

[rsgaz]

I'm guessing the master socket connection to the extension socket must be made outside?

Someone has done something odd to the wiring in the past, definitely.

Plug in an ordinary phone upstairs and make sure it works. If it does, then there is definitely a junction box somewhere, because your green and black wires downstairs have magically turned into blue and orange upstairs!!

As long as the phone works, then we can be sure that the right connections are up there, so go ahead with the changes downstairs.

I wouldn't worry that they come from the dropwire, unless there is anything glaringly bodged on the cable(s?) and/or plastic box(es?) on the outside.

 

[simon77]

Someone has done something odd to the wiring in the past, definitely.

Plug in an ordinary phone upstairs and make sure it works. If it does, then there is definitely a junction box somewhere, because your green and black wires downstairs have magically turned into blue and orange upstairs!!

As long as the phone works, then we can be sure that the right connections are up there, so go ahead with the changes downstairs.

I wouldn't worry that they come from the dropwire, unless there is anything glaringly bodged on the cable(s?) and/or plastic box(es?) on the outside.

I've already tried plugging a phone in the extension socket and it works, so that's good news.

Not a clue what's happened as my entire knowledge of telephone wiring has come from the past day and I haven't gone any further than looking in the two sockets to see what's there.

Thanks a lot for the advice!!

 

[simon77]

Someone has done something odd to the wiring in the past, definitely.

Plug in an ordinary phone upstairs and make sure it works. If it does, then there is definitely a junction box somewhere, because your green and black wires downstairs have magically turned into blue and orange upstairs!!

As long as the phone works, then we can be sure that the right connections are up there, so go ahead with the changes downstairs.

I wouldn't worry that they come from the dropwire, unless there is anything glaringly bodged on the cable(s?) and/or plastic box(es?) on the outside.

Hi,

Just tried swapping the green and black wires from 2 and 5 to the A and B on the back of the faceplate and it hasn't worked.

Before I did this I tried a phone in the extension socket and it worked. Took out the green and black wire and the extension phone no longer had a dial tone, so it must be connected.

I tried putting the black in A and green in B like you said, and when that didn't work I swapped them round.

I tried it with and without a microfilter (tried a couple of different microfilters and leads as well to make sure they weren't faulty).

The extension is a standard phone socket.

In the extension socket I mistakenly thought the brown wire was going to Pin 4, when it's going to pin 6. But that shouldn't matter if Pin 2 and Pin 5 are correctly connected and I imagine they must be if the phone was working?

Pin 2 is A (blue)
Pin 5 is B (orange)

Pin 3 is Bell wire? (green)
Pin 6 not used? (brown)




Any ideas?

Thank you!

 

[rsgaz]

You know you have to click the Mk4 faceplate back in each time before testing it upstairs, right?!

When you say it didn't work, you mean the router or did you try just the normal phone in the extension first?

 

[simon77]

You know you have to click the Mk4 faceplate back in each time before testing it upstairs, right?!

When you say it didn't work, you mean the router or did you try just the normal phone in the extension first?

Yep, put the faceplate back on!

After I'd swapped the green and black wires into A and B I was trying the router.

 

[rsgaz]

Try a phone and see what happens.

 

[simon77]

Try a phone and see what happens.

I did and it doesn't work.

Is it because the A and B signal coming from the back of the faceplate is filtered? Would I have to connect it to an RJ11/RJ45 data socket instead of the standard phone socket that's currently there?

Or shouldn't that be an issue?

Or perhaps the wiring in the extension socket needs correcting? Although as I said the phone works (prior to swapping the wires in the master) and I was using the router there prior to having the new master socket fitted.

 

[rsgaz]

Is it because the A and B signal coming from the back of the faceplate is filtered?

No, what comes out of 2&5 on the 5C is the filtered signal for phones only. What comes out of A&B on the Mk4 (Not the 5C) is unfiltered, so it's still both broadband and phone signal.

Would I have to connect it to an RJ11/RJ45 data socket instead of the standard phone socket that's currently there?

No, wouldn't make any difference.

Can you test for volts DC across pins 2 & 5 upstairs? You should see about 48 volts.

This is how it's supposed to work, here is a bench power supply connected to a 5C master socket. Bottom right is the extension socket (inline version, works exactly the same as a slave socket though). Bottom left is a test LED, green for 'OK', red if the polarity is wrong.



Phone works in the Mk4 faceplate...



Phone also works in the extension...



If you get no joy with the voltage upstairs, then you're probably going to have to trace the wiring along the route and find out where and why your wires change colour. Something's clearly not right.

It'll end up being quicker and easier to just run some external CW1308 cable from downstairs to up and totally bypass the odd wiring done by the previous owner.