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Berneray

One of my competitors gave this advice to a potential client when asked how would he know what level a panel was working to.

Apparently the customer gets himself a light meter and a thermostat then goes up onto the roof and tests each panel himself individually.

Now why did I not think of that...........
 
Not completely off topic but interesting. Had a chat a few months ago with Ray Noble, solar champion and all round good egg. At one time he was MD of BP Solar. Some panels they made nearly twenty years ago were recently tested. Degradation was less than 5%. By implication the life of the stuff currently being fitted could be 50 years.
 
Not completely off topic but interesting. Had a chat a few months ago with Ray Noble, solar champion and all round good egg. At one time he was MD of BP Solar. Some panels they made nearly twenty years ago were recently tested. Degradation was less than 5%. By implication the life of the stuff currently being fitted could be 50 years.
and the rest.

even at 20% degradation over 25 years they'd still be operating at 60% after 50 years assuming the seals etc stayed intact.

I'd expect most decent quality systems well installed now will be operating for between 50-100 years, which is a key factor that makes official cost per kWh figures for solar so far out from where they should be as they only estimate them over a 25 year life.

Taken over a longer lifespan, solar PV is already cost competitive with gas and nuclear at the generation price not retail price.
 
Did see one system the other day though, more than half of the panels were covered in Ivy!!! Bit more than 60% lost output on that one :)
 
and the rest.

even at 20% degradation over 25 years they'd still be operating at 60% after 50 years assuming the seals etc stayed intact.

I'd expect most decent quality systems well installed now will be operating for between 50-100 years, which is a key factor that makes official cost per kWh figures for solar so far out from where they should be as they only estimate them over a 25 year life.

Taken over a longer lifespan, solar PV is already cost competitive with gas and nuclear at the generation price not retail price.
I think that 25 years is the guarantee mate, im sure ive seen pv inverters guaranteed for 20 years
 
I think that 25 years is the guarantee mate, im sure ive seen pv inverters guaranteed for 20 years
yes, but the guarantee is 80% of original rated performance after 25 years, and the degradation rate is pretty much linear.

It's completely unreasonable to make predictions on the basis that the panels will all cease operation a day after they've been guaranteed to be performing to 80% of their original rated output.
 
ps I'm more talking about overall government cost benefit analysis / predictions rather than predictions for individual systems.
 
ps I'm more talking about overall government cost benefit analysis / predictions rather than predictions for individual systems.

Don't talk yourself out of business. It is hard enough as it is to get many customers to view an investment over 20 years. Due to the need for instant gratification, the event horizon may be as little as 5 years. Investment analysis for commercial systems often takes this shorter time period.

Also how can you have a product warranty of 10 years and a performance warranty of 25?
 
Don't talk yourself out of business. It is hard enough as it is to get many customers to view an investment over 20 years. Due to the need for instant gratification, the event horizon may be as little as 5 years. Investment analysis for commercial systems often takes this shorter time period.

Also how can you have a product warranty of 10 years and a performance warranty of 25?
you think?

I've yet to lose a sale by pointing out that the systems we install are intended to still be operating at a reasonable level in 50 years time, (albeit with an inverter replacement or 2 in that time) and that this is one of the main arguments for steering clear of the cheapest panels with worse fill factors, higher differences from one cell to the next etc that will logically suffer the worst degradation and failure rates.

Paying 10-20% extra for something that is likely to last 2-3 times as long makes sound financial sense to most people / businesses, although yes the bottom line is still there that seems to be around 5 year paybacks for businesses ad 8 years for domestic customers, but these are still easily achievable with quality kit.

product vs performance.... one's the warranty on the mastic, frame, glass, lamination etc, the other is the warranty on the output of the panels assuming that the rest of the panel is still holding together ok. In essence.

But yes, some of the worst put together panels with the cheaper components could fail entirely before the end of the performance guarantee, and the manufacturers would have no liability for this.
 
My point is don't tell the Government!! All they need is the slightest excuse to drastically cut or curtail the FIT. Uncertainty over the new incumbents at DECC means tread very carefully.
actually, that's exactly why we should be explaining the true value for money that solar represents.

The FIT is the country buying 50-100 years of power generation, but only paying for the first 20 years of it.

Yes the system owner will continue to benefit from it, but so will the rest of the country after the FIT is finished in terms of very low cost electricity from the export from solar PV systems that have already been fully paid for.

I find explaining it in this way helps people understand the logic behind it a hell of a lot better than going on about renewables targets, and certainly nullifies the argument about cost to the bill payer.
 
Aside from the fact that it's perfectly feasible to track the performance of an array without climbing on the roof (!), I completely agree that the false "time-limit" of viability in terms of performance, created by 20yr/25yr time-spans relating to MCS/FiT/manufacturer's performance warranties etc, is counter to the bigger picture that Solar PV offers. There are panels that have been producing useful power for decades and history has shown that an average 0.5%pa degradation is typical. Newer thin-film technology has almost zero degradation!
 

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