Hybrid circuits

[Pete999]

Morning all, been pondering quite a bit lately about Hybrid circuits,especially 13amp socket circuits, the likes of lolly pop rings etc.

I don't want to get into arguments about the pros and cons and why people install them, that's been done to death, whether, I personally agree with this method is neither here nor there, no, my question is, " how are these circuits tested, and how are the results entered on the installation certificate?" for example if you have installed a lolly pop ring how is that described? as a ring or a radial.

 

[ImpededLoop]

A very good question.

With a lollipop ring final I would enter r1 rn r2 for the ring section and then R1+R2, Zs and insulation resistance for the entire circuit. I'd then add a comment to explain that it's a lollipop circuit hence the lower than normal little "r" results and also the cable sizes on the radial and ring sections of the circuit.

 

[Octopus]

With good use of the description box.

So a lollipop should be tested and recorded like a ring.

Jmo

 

[VoltzElectrical]

What is a lollipop ring please? And I'm not joking!:uhoh2:

 

[guest119]

6mm feed, old cooker circuit etc, feeding a new ring circuit.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Why would you bother making a ring of it, just extend the 6mm circuit in say, 4mm.

That's mad, and I've never heard of it, nor would I have thought of doing it!

 

[Engineer54]

Why would you bother making a ring of it, just extend the 6mm circuit in say, 4mm.

That's mad, and I've never heard of it, nor would I have thought of doing it!

Explain what's mad about it?? Lollipop rings have been around probably longer than than you've been alive!! lol!!

 

[Octopus]

If the customer supplies Wickes sockets you have to use 2.5 as getting 2 x 4mm in is a bit tricky!

 

[7029 dave]

My boy lollipop , Millie small. lol

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

 

[Engineer54]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

That's because you're a electrical trainee, you can't see any further than what's covered in BS7671 and the picture book OSG and the like!!

 

[Octopus]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

Re read post #8

 

[HappyHippyDad]

That's because you're a electrical trainee, you can't see any further than what's covered in BS7671 and the picture book OSG and the like!!

Not sure why, but I expected more from you E54.

My boy lollipop , Millie small. lol

:smile5: I've just played that to my boy and he loves it, plays it over and over again!!!!

Re read post #8

I did see that Murdoch, but I would have thought x2 4mm fit in most sockets. I generally use crabtree and sometimes MK which both accommadate x2 4mm. However, if Wickes dont accommadate them I guess a lollipop is an option, but I personally would want to try and avoid it.

 

[Guest55]

i would not test / record a lollipop circuit as a ring as only 1 set of conductors are at the CU , therefore at the circuits origin , it must be a radial.
And trying to separately record 2 sets of results for the ring and radial parts wont lead to much clarity in the report.
However i may conduct end to end continuity tests of the ring part to ensure proper construction , but would ultimately still record it as a radial

 

[Pete999]

To add to my original post regarding Hybrid circuits, and having read the responses, one in particular peeked my interest, I think it was Eng54, where I think he said something along the lines of "just because it's not in BS7671 or the OSG doesn't make it a non compliant arrangement" if I have misread that then I apologize. but it does raise the question, if and I say if, because, as I said my personal thoughts are not in question, why doesn't the IET recognize these arrangements and include them in their publications?

I can hear the sighs now " because they are a bunch of dinosaurs etc etc, but it will be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

[ipf]

To add to my original post regarding Hybrid circuits, and having read the responses, one in particular peeked my interest, I think it was Eng54, where I think he said something along the lines of "just because it's not in BS7671 or the OSG doesn't make it a non compliant arrangement" if I have misread that then I apologize. but it does raise the question, if and I say if, because, as I said my personal thoughts are not in question, why doesn't the IET recognize these arrangements and include them in their publications?

I can hear the sighs now " because they are a bunch of dinosaurs etc etc, but it will be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Speaking of dinosaurs....I knew one bloke who used to lick his fingers before touching a cable in case it was live..ha. Don't know if he ever came across a lolipop to lick.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Explain what's mad about it?? Lollipop rings have been around probably longer than than you've been alive!! lol!!

I can't wait to find the opportunity to try out this highly established and well respected form of wiring! LOL LOL LOL. MEEERRRRYYYY CHRIIISTMAAAS!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

BS7671 is a set of Regulations, not a How to do book.
It is also produced by a committee.
As such only standard circuits are shown, as they are the only circuits everyone on the comitee agree about.
I take it that you have not experienced Spider circuits, or Spider Rings?
I have no idea who came up with such a circuit, but they need a good spanking.

 

[Simonslimline]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

Anyone who is going to to take it upon themselves to mess with electricity should be suitably competent first of all to do so. This includes having the necessary Tools, AVI & test instruments. So this setup should not pose a problem to an electrically competent person IMO.

 

[shanky887614]

nothing wrong with a lolipop circuit.

its no different to stagered lighting e.g. spots using 3 core