Is it Minor works cert?

[hwads]

Hi, Im a registered Kitchen fitter for a well known and respected company and therefore all trades I use also have to have all relevant papers (gas safe, part p etc)
I started a kitchen and arranged for my spaks to turn up at the point I needed him, all he needed to do is plug in the appliances (moulded plug tops) and sign my paperwork.
The company I work for require a cert for connecting any appliance (gives them cover I guess) the sparks said he couldn't give me a cert as there is no paperwork for that type of work!!!!
Im i wrong in thinking a Minor works is the way to go? Its not my house its a customer of the company I sub to.

Thanks

 

[Richard Burns]

If all you require an electrician to do is to plug in an appliance then there is really no applicable paperwork and no responsibility can be attributed to the electrician and there is no point in implementing this.
If you require the electrician to assess the circuit for safe use prior to plugging in then an EICR for that circuit would be appropriate, but this would take a reasonable time to undertake.
A minor electrical installation works certificate would not be appropriate as the electrician will not have made any changes to the circuit.
If you want a certificate to transfer responsibility in some way to the electrician then I would suggest you supply a custom form for your purpose and check with the electrician that they are happy to sign this, this would likely incur additional inspection and testing.

 

[westward10]

Agree with Richard but I think the connecting of appliances may refer to hard wired equipment like a cooker where in theory you could provide a MWC.

 

[hwads]

I see, he does supply a cert when a cooker is installed but this didn't need one as it was existing, He did fit a plug top to the extractor and plug that in, does that not need one as well ?

 

[telectrix]

I see, he does supply a cert when a cooker is installed but this didn't need one as it was existing, He did fit a plug top to the extractor and plug that in, does that not need one as well ?

no.because sertification applies to the fixed wiring. not appliances.

 

[hwads]

ok got it, one other question, on most single ovens he installs he fits a flex to the oven and a plug then plugs that in, is that classed as an appliance also? (no cert).

 

[westward10]

Yes it would be no different. Did he leave the 13A fuse in the plug for the extractor.

 

[hwads]

i think he swapped it for a smaller fuse, not sure though.

 

[Midwest]

I tend to disagree.

If I purchase a new washing machine for Mrs Midwest, I'd plug it into the existing socket, safe in the knowledge (as can reasonably expected) that the installation in my house is safe for that socket to be used for that purpose (no jokes please).

However, if I wasn't an electrician (no more jokes please) and I employed the services of a company, to install me a new kitchen, with appliances, it would be reasonable of me to assume that the company would ensure that the installation was safe to install the new appliances. If it wasn't, I would expect them to inform me.

Therefore, I would say it would be prudent in similar circumstances, for an electrician to make a visual inspection of the electrical installation and perhaps carrying out some simple tests. A MIEC would be suitable document to evidence such procedures. IMO

 

[hwads]

Oh ek don't know what to think now,lol
Is it a hassle for the sparks to fill in a minor works cert?

 

[telectrix]

if you are paying a sparks to plug in appliances then that's all he will do. if you pay him to inspect snd test the fixed wiring, then he should provide a certificate for that. a mewic is a minor electrical works certificate, issued for altered circuits.

 

[hwads]

Ok I guess I'll have to get him to test a circuit or two so he can issue a MIEC, that way I get the cert I need so I get paid.
The problem was he said he couldn't issue one as he hadn't really done anything only plug in appliances, is he not allowed to issue a cert if he only plugs thing in?
Thanks for your answers, I just want things right and it not to come back and bite me.

 

[Richard Burns]

A minor electrical installation works certificate is designed for alterations to a circuit, but no alterations have been done to the fixed wiring by the electrician.
The certificate asks for details of the method and characteristics of the circuit protection (no problem there, it can be visually verified), it also asks for the insulation resistance, earth fault loop impedance and RCD trip times. None of these are available without testing and the test results relate to the fixed wiring only. It also makes a statement that the work done is compliant with BS7671 and this is not possible to state as the work is outside the remit of the testing available.
However BS7671 does say that the form can be used for the replacement of accessories and lights so that may be applicable here.

If the electrician were to complete these tests, which should be straightforward, but take more time than fitting a plug, then he is only inspecting and testing the fixed wiring (for that circuit), the inspection and testing of fixed wiring is covered by an electrical installation condition report, this would probably take more time to complete than to do the work but would be a valid choice.

The issue is not that he is not allowed to issue a certificate but that such a certificate may not have any meaning in relation to the work done. He would not be able to issue a BS7671 certificate for just plugging something in as he has not done any testing.

 

[hwads]

A minor electrical installation works certificate is designed for alterations to a circuit, but no alterations have been done to the fixed wiring by the electrician.
The certificate asks for details of the method and characteristics of the circuit protection (no problem there, it can be visually verified), it also asks for the insulation resistance, earth fault loop impedance and RCD trip times. None of these are available without testing and the test results relate to the fixed wiring only. It also makes a statement that the work done is compliant with BS7671 and this is not possible to state as the work is outside the remit of the testing available.
However BS7671 does say that the form can be used for the replacement of accessories and lights so that may be applicable here.

If the electrician were to complete these tests, which should be straightforward, but take more time than fitting a plug, then he is only inspecting and testing the fixed wiring (for that circuit), the inspection and testing of fixed wiring is covered by an electrical installation condition report, this would probably take more time to complete than to do the work but would be a valid choice.

The issue is not that he is not allowed to issue a certificate but that such a certificate may not have any meaning in relation to the work done. He would not be able to issue a BS7671 certificate for just plugging something in as he has not done any testing.

Great thanks, I'll get him to test the circuit the kitchens on.
Happy days.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

So who carried out the electrical wiring alterations and additions in the new kitchen?

 

[hwads]

So who carried out the electrical wiring alterations and additions in the new kitchen?

Guess you haven't read the thread!!

 

[Deleted member 93172]

Guess you haven't read the thread!!

sorry mate, I must go to spec savers