Is it OK to terminate switched fused spur with 13A socket?

[haggis999]

Re worktop span. Yes you would need additional support. Job I've just been on similar situation. They used 2 x large 90 degree wall brackets fixed directly underneath worktop. If no support, worktop will bow within a short time.

I doubt if I could find a heavy duty wall bracket slim enough to fit in the 23mm gap between the appliances, which is why I was thinking of using 18mm steel poles.

 

[DPG]

Chrome poles should be fine I would have thought.

 

[shaun1]

Remember that your dryer will generate a lot of heat, as will your freezer, so make sure that these go at the end positions with the washing machine in the middle.

 

[haggis999]

I have decided to reduce the width of the tall larder unit to the right of my row of appliances from 600 to 500mm. This gives me much more space between the machines and will allow the use of decor panels as intermediate worktop supports.

I have also reached the conclusion that a perfect solution for the power feed to each appliance simply does not exist! I had been tempted to go for replacement longer mains leads that let me connect the plugs to switched sockets conveniently located in the larder unit, but I have now realised that I would probably have to pull all three machines out from under the worktop if I wanted to fully withdraw any given cable, as otherwise the passage of the 13A plug would be blocked in several places.

Every solution has issues, but cutting off the plugs and hard wiring to a flex outlet behind each machine (fed from DP switches in the larder unit) is once again in the frame, as perhaps the least troublesome.

 

[haggis999]

Remember that your dryer will generate a lot of heat, as will your freezer, so make sure that these go at the end positions with the washing machine in the middle.

The washer and dryer look very similar, so I currently have the freezer in the middle for cosmetic reasons. You are the first person to tell me that this could be an issue. Where would I find figures on the heat output of my appliances in order to make a judgement of how important the placement might be?

 

[haggis999]

I've just checked the specs for my dryer and washing machine.

The 'total rated load' of the dryer is 1.1kW, while the washing machine is 2.1-2.4kW. That suggests the latter might generate more heat.

However, the dryer's energy consumption for the 'Cottons Normal dry standard programme' with a full load is given as 1.39kWh, while the washing machine's energy consumption for the 'Cottons 60° standard programme' with a full load is 1.0kWh.

 

[haggis999]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[Santa]

Power in does not necessarily equal heat out. The dryer blows most of the heat out of the front vent (remember to clean out the fluff every time you use it), while the freezer needs airflow over the heat exchanger at the back or it will not work. The washing machine will not get very hot at all - even a hot wash is only 60 degrees and most are set at 40 or less.

Insulation on appliances is much better these days too - my old dishwasher would melt butter left on the worktop above it, while the newer one does not even feel warm to the touch.

I would say that ventilation for the freezer is your biggest concern and you may need to put a vent in the worktop above it.

 

[shaun1]

I may well be wrong on this, but I would imadgine that the freezer will also have to work harder if the environment surrounding it is warmer, as some of that heat will make it through the insulation to the inside and the heat pump will become less efficient in warmer ambient air. Im not sure how much of an impact this will have in the real world, however.

 

[Pete999]

The Freezer is trying to remove any residual heat from the produce in the freezer compartment, and dissipate this heat via the evaporator plate at the back of the appliance. Should this evaporator become dirty, blocked then the appliance will be less efficient, so it is imperative to ensure the evaporator is kept free from dirt, dust etc basic physics in essence.

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

This would be my preferred option too; a new 32A radial circuit (A2 if I'm not mistaken) to supply the appliances alone; I'd also prefer to see one fuse only for each appliance so either 20A DO switches for isolation & unswitched 13A sockets for connection or Switched FCUs and flex outlets.

 

[haggis999]

... I would say that ventilation for the freezer is your biggest concern and you may need to put a vent in the worktop above it.

The manufacturer of my new washing machine and dryer has told me that it is fine to enclose each of these machines in what is essentially a box with an open front (all my appliances will have a decor panel on each side and a worktop running over the top). However, I have not yet checked the ventilation requirements for my old freezer.

This would be my preferred option too; a new 32A radial circuit (A2 if I'm not mistaken) to supply the appliances alone; I'd also prefer to see one fuse only for each appliance so either 20A DO switches for isolation & unswitched 13A sockets for connection or Switched FCUs and flex outlets.

I will be using dedicated 20A FCUs connected to flex outlets for each of the three appliances. At present, they are temporarily connected into existing 13A ring main sockets in our utility room. This ring is also used for our CH boiler, but not much else of any significance. No fuses have tripped so far...

It's a long time since I read the IEE Regulations. Is your advice to use a dedicated 32A radial circuit for laundry appliances generally considered to be the correct method?

 

[haggis999]

The ring main in our utility room also serves two small spare bedrooms and the attic, where it feeds a TV aerial amp and a pair of 99W extractor fans for bathrooms. The loading is so low that you could argue that connecting the washer, dryer and freezer to this ring would be better than a dedicated radial circuit, as the current would flow through two wires instead of one.

 

[haggis999]

This would be my preferred option too; a new 32A radial circuit (A2 if I'm not mistaken) to supply the appliances alone ...

I've now calculated the max current loading generated by the washer, dryer, freezer, CH boiler, and two Xpelair fans connected to my utility room ring main as being under 18A. A dedicated radial circuit seems unnecessary.

... I would say that ventilation for the freezer is your biggest concern and you may need to put a vent in the worktop above it.

I've also just found my Zanussi freezer manual, which tells me that a solid worktop above the freezer is only acceptable if the gap below the worktop is 50mm and there is a 25mm gap on each side (alternatively, you need a top gap of at least 100mm if there are no side gaps).

I can't meet those conditions, so I will need to put a vent in the worktop. Many thanks for alerting me to that issue.

 

[richy3333]

Do the English Building Regs not require above counter top isolation like the Scottish Building Standards?

 

[haggis999]

Do the English Building Regs not require above counter top isolation like the Scottish Building Standards?

What exactly do you mean by 'above counter top isolation'?

 

[Midwest]

Do the English Building Regs not require above counter top isolation like the Scottish Building Standards?

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in the England & Wales Building Regs (Wales uses 2010 version) requiring above counter top isolation. BS7671 553.1.7 ...all equipment can be supplied from an adjacent accessible socket outlet...... The socket outlet should be accessible before removing a built in appliance (not sure of the reg on that one). I even seen some suggest, that an mcb is a form of isolation, if its nearby, not that I'm convinced of that one.

 

[Octopus]

Do the English Building Regs not require above counter top isolation like the Scottish Building Standards?

In one word - NO.

That said including a definition of accessible in BS 7671 woudn't be difficult AND a socket behind the appliance is not accessible IMHO.

I think the OP needs to discuss this with the kitchen fitter AND a spark .... internet based advice can't see whats actually happening.

 

[haggis999]

As previously stated, I no longer intend to have sockets behind the appliances. The current plan is to have flex outlets fed from three FCUs. Those FCUs cannot be located directly above the worktop as that space is fully occupied by a window, so I want them to be put inside a tall larder unit to the right of the row of machines, where they would be placed at a slightly higher level than the worktop.

Gaining access to the FCUs would thus just be a simple matter of opening the larder door.

 

[richy3333]

What exactly do you mean by 'above counter top isolation'?

Exactly what it says. It’s also a mandatory Reg in SBS. But tbh our Building Regs are easier laid out and easier to follow than England/Wales. Part P and all that nonsense. As you don’t appear constrained by that rule you have free reign.

BTW, the IEE Regs don’t refer to it as a ring main. It’s a ring final circuit you are describing