Is this is spur from a newer 100A fuse into the older VIR & Bakelite fuse?

[AF2909]

Evening all, go gentle on my for my first post

I purchased a property in January, and we have planned to fit a downstairs toilet. Upon further inspection I believe that it appears that the DNO have fitted a 'newer' (I say newer as it's not new given that I had the old fuses removed from my last property and upgraded to the new ones) single phase 100A fuse below the meter (shown below):

https://s8.postimg.org/8cbrr1p45/IMG_5037.jpg

Now, my instincts tell me that it seems that the DNO have run a spur from the newer fuse into the older VIR and Bakelite fuse (as shown below):

https://s8.postimg.org/4fyfv2bud/IMG_5036.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/5v00jrxhx/IMG_5041.jpg

My questions are:

- am I correct that they've done this?
- is there a limited supply chain and limited access to acquire the 100A incoming fuses?
- why would they have done this?
- am I within my rights to demand that the DNO address this and remedy the problem that has been caused?

I did have a survey done on the house, however the incoming fuse was hidden by a large freezer that took up all of the space under the stairs. I also appreciate that questions 2-4 are rendered useless unless my gut instinct (very much as an amateur) is correct from question 1. Having had older fuses done at my last property I know that they get rid of the VIR cable and the rest of the older stuff, so I'm perplexed as to why they did that. The old fella was a looked after person, so maybe someone has diddled him.

Thanks in advance

 

[KEV 1 N]

Looking at the pictures, I would be inclined to think your supply comes from the cast iron parts....can you take a photo that shows every thing in one, hard to tell from the close ups?

 

[AF2909]

Looking at the pictures, I would be inclined to think your supply comes from the cast iron parts....can you take a photo that shows every thing in one, hard to tell from the close ups?

Hi Kevin

I know that the supply comes in to these, however the cables then run through the wall into what appears to be a 100A fuse

Here are some more photos - thanks for the help:


https://s8.postimg.org/n9tfjjotx/IMG_5031.jpg

https://s8.postimg.org/czr0kbtth/Screenshot_20170830-221612.png

That's as much as I got in one photo, although you can see that one has 100A clearly written on it. Isn't that the rating of the newer ones, as the Bakelite ones were 60A?

 

[HandySparks]

... am I within my rights to demand that the DNO address this and remedy the problem that has been caused?

So exactly what 'problem' do you think exists?

And how is it affecting you?

 

[snowhead]

Firstly the DNO haven't been anywhere near that in years.
If they had and the cast iron cut out had been accessible they'd have had that out.

The meter looks to have been replaced on 3/4/01 (on meter exchange label).

The 100amp fuse CARRIER is that a carrier rated at 100amp, doesn't mean it has a 100amp fuse in it.
The small fuse above it is for the E7 timeswitch.

I don't see any VIR cable.

As per HandySpark, what's the issue?

 

[AF2909]

Firstly the DNO haven't been anywhere near that in years.
If they had and the cast iron cut out had been accessible they'd have had that out.

The meter looks to have been replaced on 3/4/01 (on meter exchange label).

The 100amp fuse CARRIER is that a carrier rated at 100amp, doesn't mean it has a 100amp fuse in it.
The small fuse above it is for the E7 timeswitch.

As per HandySpark, what's the issue?

I need the old gear out, I assumed (maybe wrongly) that it has been fudged by the DNO. I thought I'd post before diving in with two feet. The DNO guy said he couldn't understand why it was there as it was...

Cheers!

 

[dmxtothemax]

Also I don't understand your concern about being limited to 100A !
under most circumstances 100A would be plenty.
Unless you use a lot of power ? then I would not worry.
What is your main concern ?

 

[HandySparks]

I need the old gear out...

Are you saying that you need the 'old gear' out to make way for some new plumbing?

In which case, you'll have to get the DNO to move the supply head, most likely at some considerable expense.

 

[buzzlightyear]

you say that you have VIR on the tails from the DNO looking at the pic you put up. the cable tail are grey PVC double sheathed not red or black VIR double sheathed

 

[AF2909]

Also I don't understand your concern about being limited to 100A !
under most circumstances 100A would be plenty.
Unless you use a lot of power ? then I would not worry.
What is your main concern ?

you say that you have VIR on the tails from the DNO looking at the pic you put up. the cable tail are grey PVC double sheathed not red or black VIR double sheathed

Hi both

It's not the limit of 100A, it's whether or not someone did half a job. Snowhead - would the 100A fuse carrier only have been able to be installed by the DNO?

I have no doubt in 99% of cases the cast iron and VIR would have been taken out, however seeing the newer equipment further up the line makes me wonder if it has been run off the older stuff as a quick fix.

 

[dmxtothemax]

DNO are always wanting to keep costs down.
so they won't do anything unless they have to.
Which means they think that it is adequate and safe.
That being said if they don't want to pay to change it,
then there is nothing stopping you from paying an electrician
to upgrade it to newer more modern equipment.
That may put your mind at rest.

 

[snowhead]

Snowhead - would the 100A fuse carrier only have been able to be installed by the DNO?

YES

I have no doubt in 99% of cases the cast iron and VIR would have been taken out, however seeing the newer equipment further up the line makes me wonder if it has been run off the older stuff as a quick fix.

The DNO probably didn't have the policy of removing Cast iron when they last visited, which looks to have been at least 16 years ago.

The "New meters" inc E7 may have put in the current location at the request of the occupier, maybe so they could get the frezzer in place.

I'm not sure I see your problem

You want the old cutout and cable moving.
You'd have to pay regardless of whether the new fuse was there or not.
To remove the old cast iron the DNO would most likely want to cut the cable outside to make it safe for them to work on the cast iron.
They'd normally then run a new section of cable to the old location.
I assume you want the cutout at the current meter location?

 

[Octopus]

Are you saying that you need the 'old gear' out to make way for some new plumbing?

In which case, you'll have to get the DNO to move the supply head, most likely at some considerable expense.

And then a nice long wait as they don't do much in a hurry.

Bottom line, if the OP wants it moved, he will have to pay.

 

[DPG]

OP, which parts are wired in VIR?

 

[davesparks]

- am I correct that they've done this?
- is there a limited supply chain and limited access to acquire the 100A incoming fuses?
- why would they have done this?
- am I within my rights to demand that the DNO address this and remedy the problem that has been caused?

There is no VIR in your pictures as far as I can see, only PVC/PVC tails and the PILC incomer.

Acquiring the 100A fuses is easy as they are also used in other switchgear.

They have most likely done this because removing the cast iron head would involve significant work to excavate the cable and cut it to isolate the head, it may even require isolating part of the network. I would hazard a guess that they may have fitted a solid link in place of the rewireable fuse.

You could try demanding that the DNO do something, but I’m sure you’ll find that being polite and asking them will get you a lot further.
What problem do you think has been caused which needs remedying?

 

[AF2909]

There is no VIR in your pictures as far as I can see, only PVC/PVC tails and the PILC incomer.

Acquiring the 100A fuses is easy as they are also used in other switchgear.

They have most likely done this because removing the cast iron head would involve significant work to excavate the cable and cut it to isolate the head, it may even require isolating part of the network. I would hazard a guess that they may have fitted a solid link in place of the rewireable fuse.

You could try demanding that the DNO do something, but I’m sure you’ll find that being polite and asking them will get you a lot further.
What problem do you think has been caused which needs remedying?

YES



The DNO probably didn't have the policy of removing Cast iron when they last visited, which looks to have been at least 16 years ago.

The "New meters" inc E7 may have put in the current location at the request of the occupier, maybe so they could get the frezzer in place.

I'm not sure I see your problem

You want the old cutout and cable moving.
You'd have to pay regardless of whether the new fuse was there or not.
To remove the old cast iron the DNO would most likely want to cut the cable outside to make it safe for them to work on the cast iron.
They'd normally then run a new section of cable to the old location.
I assume you want the cutout at the current meter location?

Thanks for replies (and from others not quoted). Yes, the cut out needs to be moved to make way for a downstairs toilet. The reason I'm querying this is that the cut out at my last property was removed, so I found it peculiar that this was left in place.

I've also had a quote from UKPN for...£1400 although in the quote they talk about moving the meter, supplying new tails etc. when the 'newer' tails are already in place (they are the exact same ones I had at my last property when they replaced the cast iron and bakelite fuses). All I want is the cut out to join where the meter and tails are.

Also, I don't intend upon being rude as that doesn't generally get you anywhere. As it seems I'll have to pay, would there be any contractors who would be able to do the job at a more reasonable price? I know it's unlikely as they have to submit plans to the DNO and most people who do work on the Lloyd's register have bigger fish to fry...

 

[AF2909]

Hi all - back again!

It seems from their records the work they did complied with the regs of the time and they are insistent that it is suitable and safe.

With this in mind they've said £714 to move the cut out outside and the electricity supplier has quoted £89 to move the meter. However, what is the maximum distance that the consumer unit can be located from the meter? By my generous use of my tape measure I would say the CU will be approximately 1750mm away from the meter.

 

[buzzlightyear]

the maximum distance from the main head is 3 meters only .

 

[davesparks]

Hi all - back again!

It seems from their records the work they did complied with the regs of the time and they are insistent that it is suitable and safe.

With this in mind they've said £714 to move the cut out outside and the electricity supplier has quoted £89 to move the meter. However, what is the maximum distance that the consumer unit can be located from the meter? By my generous use of my tape measure I would say the CU will be approximately 1750mm away from the meter.

1750mm should be fine, the maximum length of the tails from meter to CU is 3000mm , so if your straight line distance is 1750mm then your tails shouldn’t exceed that length.

That quote sounds fair compared to some of the prices they come up with.
I’d advise getting them to fit an isolator (probably by the metering company) after the meter, the electrician you use to do the rails will be able to advise/assist.