Is this right

[GMES]

A lad I know about 2 years out of his apprenticeship rang me the other day for some advice. Basically he is doing some work for a company that is getting work through a local council over my way, anyway having been there for a few weeks he was asked to provide proof of his qualifications because he was the only spark that the company were sending to the jobs, So he took them in only to be told they wouldn't accept or recognise them.
Basically, he has done a full apprenticeship with a local sparky and done the full college courses, level 1,2 & nvq3 but got Eal certificates and it would appear they are worthless in some people's eyes.
I know we have had this chat before and That a lot of short course guys get the Eal version but surely he has proven his competency by going the distance.
Naturally, he is gutted about this and the only advice I could really give him was to speak to his college and get them to argue his case.

 

[Leesparkykent]

The likes of N G Bailey and bae systems now put their electrical apprentices through the EAL route and JTL also adopt the EAL route. They are also fully recognised by the JIB/ECS and he would be graded as an electrician.

 

[Wilko]

I think the EAL should be approached to support him. Maybe an email from them setting out their position in the industry and what they certify his certificates mean? Desk jockeys can push my buttons
Or was that kiss my buttons?

 

[GMES]

Cheers Lee, I suppose though this is the same as Insurance companies stipulating Nic only!! but if it's their policy can it be challenged, I would like to think so.

 

[westward10]

Sounds crazy to me, agree with Wilko.

 

[GMES]

I said the same Westy, the kid is gutted, like I said to him if they carry no weight then surely they shouldn't be allowed as part of a proper apprenticeship. I'm guessing they are perfectly alright and this is just a case of some Door handle in an office with nothing better to do at the council.

 

[Richard Burns]

Summit skills is the body that assesses qualifications in the building services and engineering sector.
They have they Qualification Credit Framework that defines whether qualifications delivered by various awarding bodies are meeting the defined national occupational standards and are fit for purpose.

EAL courses are assessed by summit skills and the courses are fully recognised as meeting the required standards for delivering fit for purpose training, this is the same assessment and approval that is used for city and guilds courses. These courses are listed in the ofqual register as being of sufficient quality.
Your lad should have no worries about his qualifications, only worries about the level of inefficiency of the council!

Any professional organisation can have no reason to consider that EAL courses have any practical difference in standards from C&G.
They may have personal preferences, but these are irrelevant in a business focus.

 

[GMES]

Thanks Richard.

 

[GMES]

Quick update lads, He rang me yesterday to say they were laying him off on the 23rd, so not the best Xmas Present, apparently they say that since they refused to recognise his quals they only kept him on as a labourer as a good will gesture but will not be able to allow him to work after Christmas.
I have Passed on the info Richard and others kindly provided and he is going to pursue it in the new year.
So thanks again guys for your help and input and I will, of course, keep you all in the loop as it unfolds.

 

[andyb]

This stinks if you ask me, the lads done a full apprenticeship and has the qualifications required. It's not clear to me who asked for his quals, was it the council? If so it should be simple for his company to resolve this if they had the will to do so.
If you go down the local college/apprenticeship route you have no say in whether you sit G&G or EAL exams. It's up to the college.
All my quals are C&G apart from my 2391 which is EAL, same college for all just different exam body for the last. The Nic, ECA and Napit all recognise EAL as far as I'm aware.

 

[GMES]

Yeah Andy, it was the Council that asked for them.

 

[telectrix]

Yeah Andy, it was the Council that asked for them.

as said. some pencil-neck that thinks niceic is the only scam .

tell him to hit the council with a discrimination case.

 

[GMES]

I think that's what he is Planning Tel. He is getting Christmas sorted then he is on it.

 

[LankyWill]

I did my level 3 NVQ through EAL because my college said it was cheaper than the likes of City and Guilds. Ive never had anyone question my approved electrician card because of it. Some over paid ---- by the sounds of it, poor lad hope he finds somewhere more worthwhile and with a bit more integrity.

 

[uksrevivor]

What a shame for the lad he obviously has worked bloody hard to gain the certifications and only to be told in a computer says no scenario probably by some desk jockey who has no idea. My Initial verification inspection and testing certification is the EAL qualification and I was informed by the college tutor that they had adopted the EAL examination route and dropped the C&G exam because of the high failure rate on the C&G exams. I was informed that the large failure rate on the C&G course makes the college look bad on official results figures so they took the EAL version. My qualification is equivalent to C&G but i will admit it was an easier, better layed out course on both the practical and theory examinations as they are taken right after each other where the C&G examinations have a gap between them and its up to 6 weeks if im right when a candidate might have lost some of the information gained in the first theory exam.

 

[happysteve]

It should be the person at the council (or their line manager) who loses their job, not the electrician. They have made a mistake which, through ignorance, lack of training or just general incompetence has lost someone their job.

If it was me in this situation I'd be incredibly angry. I'd be getting in touch with EAL and Summit Skills. I would advise also staying friendly with the firm that's just laid him off - make sure that this really is the only reason they're letting him go, say you're going to challenge it after Christmas and, at the very least, would they mind supplying him with a letter/email stating that the council's position was the sole reason for his redundancy. If he can get that, then my personal, non-legal view would be that he's got a very strong case. Against who - or for what, exactly - is difficult to say, though. Depends on what the council have said (and whether there's written evidence of any of it).

Whichever way you look at it, it's a pointless, sad case. No, it's not right.

 

[KennyKen]

Go through the correct channels then take them to court. What a liberty...

 

[Toneyz]

Once you only had C & G that you did at stages on weekly day or block release now you have NVQ,EAL etc.no wonder employers are confused and maybe Iv'e read this wrong but why is his employer only asking for qualifications now ?

 

[PEG]

Sounds like they were looking for a reason to flirt him...Where is the input from the company he was employed by,and sent to said Council?

It would be nice to think,having employed him for such possible contracts,and being satisfied with his qualifications,they fight his corner when their customers disagree.

 

[GMES]

@Leesparkykent @Wilko @westward10 @Richard Burns @andyb @telectrix @LankyWill @uksrevivor @happysteve @KennyKen @anthonybragg @PEG
Guys, I just thought I would update you all, I know it was started in December last year, but just to let you all know That I have ended up taking the Lad on full time myself, He was treat like crap by that firm and after doing a full apprenticeship and by the book I think he deserved better. So as they say all's well that ends well.