Isolation for a bathroom fan

[Mark payne]

Hello I work as a maintenance man in a hotel that has recently been fitted with Greenwood Unity CV2GIP bathroom fans. These fans run constantly, full speed when the light is on and trickle speed when the light is off.
No isolation switch has been fitted for these fans other than turning off the MCB in the small fuse board in the bedroom.
Does this comply with the current wiring regulations? I thought that a triple pole isolater should have been fitted, but not sure if it is a regulation or recommendation.
If anyone could enlighten me and possibly give me the regulation number it would be a great help.

 

[telectrix]

Does the MCB switch off lights as well as fan/s?

 

[Mark payne]

Yes the MCB turns of the lighting circuit and the fan is wired from the lighting circuit

 

[Mark payne]

Does the MCB switch off lights as well as fan/s?

Yes, the fan and lights are on the same circuit

 

[telectrix]

thw whole purpose of a fan isolator is to enable you to isolate the fan without killing the lights, in order to be able to see when servicing/replacing fan, so in this case, a fan isolator is desirable.

 

[PEG]

Hi,i suppose full isolation can be achieved from the DB,which will not be a million miles from where a 3 pole would be...

That,and the fact that fitting a separate isolator could be 2/3's more work

 

[Richard Burns]

As far as I am aware there is no specific regulation for extractor fans isolation.
Regulation 537.2.1.2 specifies that suitable means must be available to prevent inadvertent energisation.
However this can be provided in a domestic situation by the MCB or the main switch.
The electricians guide to the building regulations states that for fans in bathrooms without a window that a fan should be (not must be) provided with a triple pole isolator so that changing the fan can be done with the light on.
However any other item of electrical equipment on a lighting circuit would have to be changed in the dark as a matter of course so this seems a little OTT.
In general the accepted practice is to provide a triple pole isolator as it avoids later questions about safety, but I do not believe it is a specific requirement.
In your case there is a means of isolation available and you would not want guests to switch off a local isolator for a continuous extract system.

and I am typing way too slowly as three posts have come in since I started typing!

 

[Mark payne]

As far as I am aware there is no specific regulation for extractor fans isolation.
Regulation 537.2.1.2 specifies that suitable means must be available to prevent inadvertent energisation.
However this can be provided in a domestic situation by the MCB or the main switch.
The electricians guide to the building regulations states that for fans in bathrooms without a window that a fan should be (not must be) provided with a triple pole isolator so that changing the fan can be done with the light on.
However any other item of electrical equipment on a lighting circuit would have to be changed in the dark as a matter of course so this seems a little OTT.
In general the accepted practice is to provide a triple pole isolator as it avoids later questions about safety, but I do not believe it is a specific requirement.
In your case there is a means of isolation available and you would not want guests to switch off a local isolator for a continuous extract system.

and I am typing way too slowly as three posts have come in since I started typing!

 

[Mark payne]

Ok, thank you very much for your help.

 

[PEG]

Yep,it's a post-race!...
I cannot remember seeing many isolators fitted,in the hotels i have visited,i think this is to save patrons who do not like the noise of a fan,to leave a clammy bathroom,for the next person.

Anyway,i'm sure we all stay in hotels that are so luxurious,that their bathrooms contain large,feature windows,to allow working on the fan,in daylight hours (which is the only time they fail)

 

[Mark payne]

Yep,it's a post-race!...
I cannot remember seeing many isolators fitted,in the hotels i have visited,i think this is to save patrons who do not like the noise of a fan,to leave a clammy bathroom,for the next person.

Anyway,i'm sure we all stay in hotels that are so luxurious,that their bathrooms contain large,feature windows,to allow working on the fan,in daylight hours (which is the only time they fail)

 

[SparkyChick]

I'd get a hold of the installation instructions for said fan and see what the manufacturers require. The regs require manufacturers instructions to be taken into account, so if they ask for an isolator I'd be inclined to fit one just to make sure I'm not on the wrong side of the regs.

 

[Mark payne]

The problem I have is that there two fans stuck on full speed that won't reset and the contractor won't be back to fix them for a week or so. I can't disconnect them as it is a windowless bathroom, so an isolactor just for the fan would have been useful

 

[Mark payne]

I'd get a hold of the installation instructions for said fan and see what the manufacturers require. The regs require manufacturers instructions to be taken into account, so if they ask for an isolator I'd be inclined to fit one just to make sure I'm not on the wrong side of the regs.

 

[Mark payne]

The manufacturer's instructions state a triple pole isolator should be used.

 

[SparkyChick]

Regulation 134.1.1 on page 21 of the big yellow book states:-

"Good workmanship by skilled or instructed persons and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installation. The installation of electrical equipment shall take account of manufacturers' instructions."

 

[Mark payne]

Thank you sparkychick, I forward that on to my boss.

 

[SparkyChick]

Mark, the issue with the regs is that it's not a statutory document. The advice from a sparks point of view is that if you follow the regs, evidence that you have done so presents a strong case in your defence if something goes wrong. It could be they elected not to fit them, but my understanding is that would need to be recorded as a departure from BS7671 (the regs) and should have included a risk assessment so that whoever made that decision can demonstrate they thought about the situation upfront and concluded that in that given scenario it's acceptable to not fit the isolator.

The fact the lights go out isn't a problem from a sparks perspective, it's our normal working environment, but if used in a domestic setting, the householder may not be equipped to deal with it so it's preferential to keep the lights on which requires the isolator so they can work on the fan.

 

[Richard Burns]

Because the manufacturers instructions state the fan must have a triple pole isolator then one should have been provided (probably in a location to which guests do not have access.

In your current position, as you have described, I would switch off the lighting MCB and disconnect the power supply to the fan and terminate safely (if this is within your skill set) and then restore the power to the lighting circuit.

 

[Mark payne]

Thank you everyone who replied to my question. The area manager is calling to see me on Thursday to look at the problem. When he spoke to the installation contractor they claimed that they didn't need to fit an isolator as they were connecting the new fan to the existing wiring (which was probably 15th edition installation) this isn't true as all the wiring on each floor was ripped out during the refurbishment.
I will let you know what the outcome is.