Kitchen electrical work - are naked cables ok or not?

[FreshHomeOwner]

As someone doing a kitchen refurbishment project for the first time (and now having learnt the hard way why you should never leave your kitchen fitter in charge of sourcing the electrician), I was a bit surprised about the state the electrical works were left in and just figured I'd check here if this is acceptable or breaks some obvious regulations.

In short, where the old wires in the wall were all running through metal conduits, the electrician left the new ones for me to fill in. (see images) It does looks like somewhat bad practice to me, but perhaps not strictly against any regulations, and as long as I get the certificate from the NICEIC and have it verified to guard me against future inspection failures I am kind of ok with patching it up, tiling over and assuming no one will ever try to drill into the kitchen tiles without turning power off at the mains. But I just want to know there's no obvious regulations broken by not having any housing for them?

 

[Nickj]

Whilst it's not the neatest work the cables have been run in safe zones and so assuming they are RCD protected then it is fine to plaster over them. They should have capping over them to avoid any damage caused by a plasterers trowel however I don't believe there is a regulation that stipulates that, it's more best practice.

If you don't have an RCD then it would be against the regulations to leave the cables as they are unprotected and less than 50mm deep.

 

[Risteard]

Whilst it's not the neatest work the cables have been run in safe zones

The first picture seems to show a cable running technically just outside of the prescribed zones.

 

[Nickj]

Very true Risteard, It's a rather large chase though and so I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) it's running to another accessory. Perhaps the OP could confirm.

The biggest issue is whetehr it is protected by an RCD. If it is not is definitely doesn't comply, if it is then it most likely complies

 

[FreshHomeOwner]

I believe the cable is connected to my cooker, which is turned on via a switch in the cupboard above it. The big hole was my old socket panel which obstructed the kitchen install and is going to be quite a filling job. Still don't know how he managed to drill through the wall into my bathroom, but luckily for both of us it's the next thing on the list of home improvements.

So yeah, guess it's as I thought then: not non-compliant, just a bit shoddy. As long as I get the certificate (which is proving to be a challenge) I'll have enough peace of my mind. Will check turning off fuses in the fusebox (that's enough to check if the cables are RCD protected I guess?), but should be fine as well.

 

[Nickj]

The electrician is a member of a competent person scheme? You need more than just his certificate. Within a month of completion you should also receive a building control notice stating that the work has been notified and thus is all legal.

Did he install the cooker switch in the cupboard? That is something I'm really not a fan of unless really necessary. In the event of something going wrong you (or whoever is using the cooker at the time) may need to quickly isolate the cooker and so the switch needs to be within easy reach. Edit: it is not against the regulations to install them in cupboards however I prefer not to.

You should see the rcd in the consumer unit, it will have a test button. When you press the test button it should trip all the circuits that it's protecting (it may be all of them, half of them or if it could be an RCBO in which case it will just trip the one circuit). If you're unsure just post an image of your consumer unit here and we can say

 

[sparksburnout]

Why should he expect a BC certificate the spark may have just modified an existing cct?

 

[westward10]

The first picture seems to show a cable running technically just outside of the prescribed zones.

You are absolutely correct, the horizontal chase route should be no wider than the width of the accessory and this is the route the cable should take.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

That looks as rough as a bears arse (excuse my french)

 

[sparksburnout]

That looks as rough as a bears arse (excuse my french)

Have to agree, tis rough as chuff. Must have cost a fortune in polyfilla. I've got a sneaking suspicion that the OP has done this and the phantom electrician does not exist...........just saying.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

Have to agree, tis rough as chuff. Must have cost a fortune in polyfilla. I've got a sneaking suspicion that the OP has done this and the phantom electrician does not exist...........just saying.

Sure looks like it.

 

[7029 dave]

There is no regulation regarding capping or oval conduit, yes it is poor practice, it is only to protect the cables from the spreads trail, and of course for rewiring purposes if done correctly.

 

[Deleted member 93172]

Guidance note 1 page 68, 4.7 page 98, 7.5

 

[rolyberkin]

That looks as rough as a bears arse (excuse my french)

Rough as a badgers arse!;-) How can some people make such a bad job of such a simple task, my eight year old could do better than that!?

 

[FreshHomeOwner]

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of having the two switches for the hob/oven in two separate cupboards when I saw that, as having them there does waste space, but seeing as it was already done after I came back from work and the cupboards drilled through I didn't request to have it changed. Didn't think too much of the safety aspect but maybe I should considering the comments here.

"I've got a sneaking suspicion that the OP has done this and the phantom electrician does not exist...........just saying."

Oh, I can assure you the "phantom" electrician does exist, But your comment sure shows why I need that electrical installation certificate that my kitchen fitter is currently holding for ransom!

At least the work HAS been notified to building control and I've got a "Building Regulations Certificate of Compliance" from NICEIC by email when I called them, but it is incredibly vague, just saying "Electrical / Install one or more new circuits" in the "Description of Notifiable Work" section. Nothing about the sockets moved, new 32a feed wired externally, wiring hob/oven etc.

He and his company do NOT appear in the search on Home - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk which does raise yet another alarm bell. But he does appear in the NICEIC local contractors search, as well as in the search on www.competentperson.co.uk. Not sure of why this inconsistency is here...

"Guidance note 1 page 68, 4.7 page 98, 7.5"

What document are you referring to? "Guidance note 1" is a bit too generic to give me the right results on Google...

 

[Midwest]

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of having the two switches for the hob/oven in two separate cupboards when I saw that, as having them there does waste space, but seeing as it was already done after I came back from work and the cupboards drilled through I didn't request to have it changed. Didn't think too much of the safety aspect but maybe I should considering the comments here.

At least the work HAS been notified to building control and I've got a "Building Regulations Certificate of Compliance" from NICEIC by email when I called them, but it is incredibly vague, just saying "Electrical / Install one or more new circuits" in the "Description of Notifiable Work" section. Nothing about the sockets moved, new 32a feed wired externally, wiring hob/oven etc.

He and his company do NOT appear in the search on Home - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk which does raise yet another alarm bell. But he does appear in the NICEIC local contractors search, as well as in the search on www.competentperson.co.uk. Not sure of why this inconsistency is here...
QUOTE]

.

Installing cooker switches in cupboards, may be acceptable in certain circumstances, i.e. when there is nowhere else suitable to mount them in proximity to the appliance it isolates. However, installing an isolator directly above an appliances is not good practise, for obvious reasons.

The description of the work carried out, on the Building Control Certificate, is I'm afraid going to be just that vague. There are only similar tick boxes on the from to be completed by the installer. What should be more precise, is the extent of the work, which should be described on the Minor Works Certificate, or your case an Electrical Installation Certificate (as the LBC have been informed of new circuits).

You describe having difficulty obtaining the certificate from your installer? Are you in dispute with them, i.e. have you paid for the work yet? Any electrical works requires some form of certificate (within reason!), and the certificate is part & parcel of the work, so having you invoice not paid is not a reason to issue a certificate. Although I have to say, it normally takes me some time to complete a certificate, and my invoice is usually paid before I've issued my cert's

If you are in dispute with your installer, and you feel the work is below standard and the installer is unwilling to rectify, you could contact the NICEIC (if indeed the installer is registered with them). NICEIC will have a mediation process

 

[hightower]

I'm interested in knowing why some feel it's bad practice to not use capping? Surely it's a case of horses for courses, but not using it doesn't necessarily mean bad practice. It's easy enough to stick capping on a wall which hasn't been finished (example breezeblock on a new build), but in a chase of an old terraced house with 107 coats of different plaster and the brick course put in by Stevie Wonder installing capping is usually a lot more trouble than it's worth.

When you want to keep chases narrow and clean, I find that clipping is a lot neater and easier - the cables aren't likely to be damaged by the plasterer in a narrow chase. Granted, you can't say that was a narrow chase in the OPs case but that wall looks like all sorts of hell - to me if you tried to install capping on that it would look like the Ultimate roller coaster at Light Water Valley.

To say not using capping is always bad practice is just wrong in my opinion though.

 

[Midwest]

I'm interested in knowing why some feel it's bad practice to not use capping? QUOTE]

You quite right, we all understand the reasoning for using channelling or capping. If it's a very narrow chase the plasterers trowel is unlikely to damage the cables. There was an electricians fable, that the plaster attacked the cable, probably true of lime plaster, but not the stuff used in last few decades. I don't for example use capping in dot & dab walls, but having watched the dry liner slapping on his adhesive, perhaps I should!

I always use capping in chases, and knowing the reasons I don't have to, but choose to do so. The only reason I can give, is that shows a pride in ones work and just taking that little bit more effort. And if the cables do get damaged by what ever means, I have a slim chase of pulling in a new cable.

I'm sure there are other examples of unnecessary practises , but in the OP's case I think the lack of capping perhaps suggests a general standard of poor workmanship, but by just looking at a few pictures, we shouldn't really speculate, which I guess is what your saying.

I would suggest the OP contacts NIC, to see if they are willing to inspect. Or perhaps contacting the installer first?

 

[telectrix]

with kitchens, i generally find that it's best to run cables diagonally, all over the place, as kevin kitchen fitter only drills his fixing holes directly above or below the sockets. this way. ot's only random that he hits your cables.:mangry:

 

[hightower]

I have a tonne of capping in the garage, and use it whenever I can. But I'm just thinking of a more recent job where I opened the chase up quite wide to accommodate the capping but it was a nightmare. In the end I opted for clips and it looked much neater than it ever would have looked with capping on it. Would hate for someone to post it on a forum and say "is this right" for it to be ripped to shreds when really there was good cause for not using capping.

I'm not saying this is the case for the OP at all. It looks a mess, but who's to say when he chased the wall the plaster was rubbish and it just fell away - I've had that happen multiple times. Makes your work look shoddy as hell, but there's more to it than what a simple picture portrays.

So yes Midwest, I'm just saying it's wise not to speculate too much.