Large stables, agricultural installation experts advice saught

[Welchyboy]

Hey chaps

i have to return a quote for a job installing supplies for 3 buildings on a site, incuding 2x stables and a general storage building, the demand is not too much 50A max, only really general lighting,
small power etc SPN 100A TT, all submains will be via a single 300mA 'S' rcd at origin and all final circuits will have rcbo 30mA protection

theres only really horses on site no other livestock to think of

i will be using a large IP65 metal enclosure in each building to house all of switchgear/C.U's in one i may be able omit the box and site the switchgear in the rest room which will be of general construction plasterboard with plastered/painted walls and a toilet

throughout the site i was intended to install SWA for submains/some final socket circuits and a mix of SWA and heavy duty black pvc conduit for lighting. all fittings will be at least IP44 construction with exception to the rest room and toilet.

there may be one storage area which is likely delivery vehicles will be in and out, there will be a few sockets around this area at around 1200mm affl, would it be best to tube these in galv or just keep to PVC tube/swa??

i am aiming to keep all cable runs and fittings away from areas likely to be routes or housing of horses, the roof of the stables is around 4m high with open topped hourse pens so that wont be an issue, but the owner has requested using high/low bay lighting, is this ok?? as they wont be at least IP44 construction, i wanted to install 6ft enclosed twins along this route but hes digging his heels in abit

also i plan to install rods at each point of supply at each building, any advice on siting the rods with regards to horses?

as a serparate issue i have yet to discuss emg lighting/fire protection with him, i just need to get a price for the main works to him

any input is welcome!


thank you​

 

[Engineer54]

Hey chaps

i have to return a quote for a job installing supplies for 3 buildings on a site, incuding 2x stables and a general storage building, the demand is not too much 50A max, only really general lighting,
small power etc SPN 100A TT, all submains will be via a single 300mA 'S' rcd at origin and all final circuits will have rcbo 30mA protection

theres only really horses on site no other livestock to think of

i will be using a large IP65 metal enclosure in each building to house all of switchgear/C.U's in one i may be able omit the box and site the switchgear in the rest room which will be of general construction plasterboard with plastered/painted walls and a toilet

Sounds fair enough to me!!

throughout the site i was intended to install SWA for submains/some final socket circuits and a mix of SWA and heavy duty black pvc conduit for lighting. all fittings will be at least IP44 construction with exception to the rest room and toilet.

Glad to hear your using the heavy duty PVC conduit, again it all sounds fair enough!!

there may be one storage area which is likely delivery vehicles will be in and out, there will be a few sockets around this area at around 1200mm affl, would it be best to tube these in galv or just keep to PVC tube/swa??

I'd stick to the heavy duty conduit, unless there is a very real chance of physical/mechanical damage to this conduit installation by these vehicles or whatever...

i am aiming to keep all cable runs and fittings away from areas likely to be routes or housing of horses, the roof of the stables is around 4m high with open topped hourse pens so that wont be an issue, but the owner has requested using high/low bay lighting, is this ok?? as they wont be at least IP44 construction, i wanted to install 6ft enclosed twins along this route but hes digging his heels in abit

I am not sure of current livestock regulations regards IP values for lighting etc, so i'll leave that for others to advise!!

also i plan to install rods at each point of supply at each building, any advice on siting the rods with regards to horses?

I would make provision to link these earth electrodes, and remember this is not a domestic installation so even more important to get a good Ra and stability on these rods. So go with at least two rods coupled together for depth as a good stating point. Depending on your final Ra and distance between rods you can decide what CSA conductor to use. Also important is the provision of flush to ground earth electrode pit/boxes to protect your earth rod connections. Always better to place your rods a minimum of 1.5 m/2m away from any building walls.

as a serparate issue i have yet to discuss emg lighting/fire protection with him, i just need to get a price for the main works to him

any input is welcome!


thank you​

Mine in Red...

 

[JD6400]

Hi Welchyboy , sounds a nice job if you get it .

I personally prefer not to see any metal containment in this type of setting so would keep the store in pvc tube / swa .
As for the fittings , have you got any past jobs that you could take them to so they can see what a mistake they would be making !
We are on the last legs of a big yard up around the Stratford upon Avon area where the client was set on low bay , I managed to persuade them this was a bad idea and they have now gone for 6ft twins .
They actually made a point of thanking me for digging my heals in over this as they are so much better !
In our experience you will need 6ft twin noncorrosive hf fittings running on tri fos daylight tubes. ( well thats what i call them , and out rep seems to understand what i am on about ?)
You must speck hf or you may find some horses are disturbed by the flicker .
I did get our rep to do a running cost comparison a year or so ago and they seemed to think that a 400w low bay ran at around 40p per hour compared to 10p per hour for the 6ft twins , now i have not checked if this really is the case but i do know for sure that the 6ft twins are a damn site cheaper to buy in the first place , and are so much easier to clean in years to come let alone the Superior spread pattern and quality of the light .

I forgot to mention that if some Pratt accidentally turns them off or you have a blip in supply you will not have to wait up to 10 Min's for them to come back on again , which with em lighting or not this is still a dangerous situation with livestock !

 

[Welchyboy]

All points noted, i was planning on using 16mm 2core SWA as sub mains between buildings, armour as cpc, 10/16mm earthing conductor to rods and again HD tube to pit

maybe upgrade to 3 core SWA sub mains linking rods throughout system you think?

the earth round that area is nice clay and i have had pretty good Ra >20 ohm readings in the past from domestic tts ive had to install on a single 1meter skinny rod so if i double them up and link them out job should be a good-un!

 

[Engineer54]

All points noted, i was planning on using 16mm 2core SWA as sub mains between buildings, armour as cpc, 10/16mm earthing conductor to rods and again HD tube to pit

maybe upgrade to 3 core SWA sub mains linking rods throughout system you think?

the earth round that area is nice clay and i have had pretty good Ra >20 ohm readings in the past from domestic tts ive had to install on a single 1meter skinny rod so if i double them up and link them out job should be a good-un!

Not only should it all be good, but will have a good deal of stability about the system too!! I would always use 3 core SWA on jobs like these, as there is no telling what damage can be done to the PVC sheath in the future. Which is something you need to watch also, during the pulling and burying of these cables... I would always do sheath tests, just to make sure.

 

[Welchyboy]

Hi Welchyboy , sounds a nice job if you get it .

I personally prefer not to see any metal containment in this type of setting so would keep the store in pvc tube / swa .
As for the fittings , have you got any past jobs that you could take them to so they can see what a mistake they would be making !
We are on the last legs of a big yard up around the Stratford upon Avon area where the client was set on low bay , I managed to persuade them this was a bad idea and they have now gone for 6ft twins .
They actually made a point of thanking me for digging my heals in over this as they are so much better !
In our experience you will need 6ft twin noncorrosive hf fittings running on tri fos daylight tubes. ( well thats what i call them , and out rep seems to understand what i am on about ?)
You must speck hf or you may find some horses are disturbed by the flicker .
I did get our rep to do a running cost comparison a year or so ago and they seemed to think that a 400w low bay ran at around 40p per hour compared to 10p per hour for the 6ft twins , now i have not checked if this really is the case but i do know for sure that the 6ft twins are a damn site cheaper to buy in the first place , and are so much easier to clean in years to come let alone the Superior spread pattern and quality of the light .

dpelectrical, thank you too for your input, this is such a great site!

as you say this is a lovely job, and i hope i get it

FYI the original wiring to the hay storage shed (which is the only original building at the moment) was tncs, 5 way old wylex, no rcd, wired in twin and earth clipped along the rafters and walls, internal lighting was 4x 500w halogen flood lights(situated around 3 foot above the top of the haystacks!) all switches and sockets were standard pvc white with patress boxes, most of them cracked, taped joints and signs of vermin damage aplenty.......the farmer asked if any of it was ok to re-use!

I will take your advice and put it into a covering letter regarding the hi bay lighting, also i will keep to PVC tube, using swa to get around some of the more tricky cable routes.
hf fittings and daylight tubes are something which would of never occurred to me as an issue but again something i will include

what was the requirement if any for emg lighting/fire detection?

 

[JD6400]

To be honest we are more than happy if we can manage to get even one em fitting in on a job , let alone fire detection .
You are dealing with farmers after all and anything more than a couple of pieces of wet string with a light bulb connected between them is over specking it for some of them !!!:smile5:

 

[Welchyboy]

To be honest we are more than happy if we can manage to get even one em fitting in on a job , let alone fire detection .
You are dealing with farmers after all and anything more than a couple of pieces of wet string with a light bulb connected between them is over specking it for some of them !!!:smile5:

Honestly!!! its allways the same! he is spending over 100 grand on this project on the buildings alone plus the safety of the horses to think of and they allways want to scrimp on the electrics! FFS!


well i think i will issue him with an arse covering letter about the em lights etc and get him to sign it!