Discuss Leave existing ceiling rose within new metal light fitting?? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I'm your average DIYer and after advice about replacing a pendant light with a new flush metal fitting. I can fix the new light to the ceiling and the existing rose sits within the void of the new fitting without any clearance issues. Is it OK to leave it in place and wire the new fitting into the rose replacing the pendant's connections? I've had mixed replies from other forums. If I can't do this can I use wago connectors or choc blocs and leave them in the fitting or does it all have to go up into the loft space within a junction box? I'd much rather just connect to the rose and leave it in situ and I can still get a good fixing for the bracket. Thanks in advance.

Leave existing ceiling rose within new metal light fitting?? light fittin - EletriciansForums.net

Leave existing ceiling rose within new metal light fitting?? inside light fittin - EletriciansForums.net
 
Brilliant thanks. The void in the new light is quite deep and I was pleased as it saves me taking the rose off.
Also just to check....on another forum someone had said it was ok to do this as long as put the cap back on the rose. I definitely can’t do this as there is no room for that. So it’s still ok to wire it up uncapped? Sorry I should have said this in my original post.
 
I'm with davesparks. It needs a tool to get to it so there is no danger.

I've got you. So it's more about how accessible or exposed it is that is important? I was thinking more about heat from the light but I suppose when you think about it there are wires and a terminal block on the light fitting anyway so it must be safe.
One more quickie with regards to the flex used to connect between the rose and the fitting. I have some 1.25mm 13 amp cable from a previous project. Is this OK to use? Can I strip the cables out of the outer sheath and use them individually or do just strip back at the connections?
 
It should do but I wouldn't use the 1.25mm flex to be honest.
 
ideally you'd use some 1.5mm singles, but as you have to buy 100m of each, that would be economically daft. get a short length of 1.5mm flex and strip the outer sheath off.
 
I would leave the rose cover in the top of the fitting if possible as in the future you may wish to swap back and the covers aren't interchangeable.
 
0.5 or 0.75mm flex will be fine. Strip the outer sheath off and just have the coloured cores.
Just make sure you have enough space and the cables don't get squashed or otherwise pressing against the metal fitting once its up.

Your new fitting will be a little off centre compared with the existing rose as you need the metal bracket screwed up first.

And I would advise you isolate the circuit at the consumer unit. The 2 reds in the centre terminals of the rose will be live even if the light switch is off.

Personally, I would remove the rose and use Wago connectors. You would need to make sure you connected it back up properly. You're going to have 3 earth cores coming out the ceiling plus the new bit of flex.
 
0.5 or 0.75mm flex will be fine. Strip the outer sheath off and just have the coloured cores.
Just make sure you have enough space and the cables don't get squashed or otherwise pressing against the metal fitting once its up.

Your new fitting will be a little off centre compared with the existing rose as you need the metal bracket screwed up first.

And I would advise you isolate the circuit at the consumer unit. The 2 reds in the centre terminals of the rose will be live even if the light switch is off.

Personally, I would remove the rose and use Wago connectors. You would need to make sure you connected it back up properly. You're going to have 3 earth cores coming out the ceiling plus the new bit of flex.

All noted thank you. I plan to take the pendant down and I will then be able to gauge if I have enough room for the wires. When I started looking at this I liked the look of those Wago connectors. If I don’t have enough room to leave the rose and I was forced to rethink could I use the Wagos and have them left in the inside of the fitting? I’m under the impression that if I push them up into the loft space I need them to be in an enclosure. I don’t really want the extra work of doing that but I want to be safe more than anything.
 
Well, the good thing with Wago's are that they are individual, so they can be position in the fitting away from each other. You wont need to use a joint box in the ceiling.
You can get ones that are designed for solid core cable on one side and a flex on the other.
 
I've had the mis-fortune to have to have fitted some of those luminaires or similar. I left the ceiling rose in place, cap on and cap off (cap off is much easier), using some flex to connect between ceiling rose & luminaire.

Some have convenient holes in the luminaire fixing bar, to locate underneath the ceiling rose, to make use of the suitable fixing into the above joist etc. If they haven't, offer it up & make some. It will also need fixing near the ends also.
 
Well, the good thing with Wago's are that they are individual, so they can be position in the fitting away from each other. You wont need to use a joint box in the ceiling.
You can get ones that are designed for solid core cable on one side and a flex on the other.
I was looking at the 222 ones with the levers as I’d watched a YouTube video of someone using them to connect a light fitting. I have also seen the ones designated for lighting circuits but wasn’t sure if they could accommodate multiple solid core cables into the one hole as they are push fit on that side aren’t they? I couldn’t find any info on that online.
 

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