Leave existing ceiling rose within new metal light fitting??

[DPG]

If the existing rose has its cover screwed back on and the the new fitting is fed with flexible cable from the rose then it is perfectly acceptable.

He has already said there is no room for the lid to stay in place.

 

[Mark Huddleston]

He has already said there is no room for the lid to stay in place.

Yeah that’s right and it’s all installed now minus the rose lid. Went up fine.

 

[brianmoooore]

Just to be pedantic,isn't there still a reg. that says solid core and flexibles shouldn't be in the same terminal? That rose only has a single earth terminal.

 

[Mark Huddleston]

Just to be pedantic,isn't there still a reg. that says solid core and flexibles shouldn't be in the same terminal? That rose only has a single earth terminal.

God I hope not. I don’t fancy taking it down and changing it all now.

 

[brianmoooore]

I wouldn't worry about it too much! I've fitted lights with similar bases to yours on many occasions while leaving the rose in place. I've even fitted Crabtree roses (which have a lid secured by two screws) specifically to be able to fix the mounting bar on some fittings to it.
A bootlace ferrule can be added to the flexible wire to make it suitable for mixing with solid cores.

 

[Generator]

I think using the existing rose as a connection point is much better (and easier) than joints in the ceiling void. The most important thing is to test for earth continuity of the new metal lighting fitting, when it's all finished.

 

[Mark Huddleston]

I think using the existing rose as a connection point is much better (and easier) than joints in the ceiling void. The most important thing is to test for earth continuity of the new metal lighting fitting, when it's all finished.

Thanks for that but I’m very much your average DIYer so not sure how to test this and sounds like I’ll probably need a multimeter.

 

[Generator]

I'm afraid that's where DIY electrical work reaches it's limit. Electricity is a lethal form of energy - in untrained hands.
Whenever electrical work is carried out, no matter how small the job, the only way to ensure safety is by testing on completion. This needs proper calibrated equipment, in trained hands, with knowledge of the safe limits as specified in the Regs.
The only way to ensure your work is safe is to get a qualified electrician to test it for you.

 

[A032701]

generator,
that is a little bit extreme to get a qualified sparky just to change a light fitting!!
mark if you want you can buy a cheap multimeter for about 8 quid then just plug the red probe into the live terminal and the black probe into earth terminal. if all is well it should work however if there is a break in continuity then you will need a sparkie to do some fault finding.

 

[DPG]

Must admit I think changing a light fitting shouldn't be a problem for the competent DIYer. It's about knowing your limits as well of course.

Would you also stop someone fitting a 13A plug? (plug-top for the benefit of certain people ).

Tin hat on. And tested.

 

[Generator]

Alban and DPG,
I'm surprised at the lack of " you need to get an electrician" type replies to this thread - they're quite common on many other similar threads I've seen in the past. Installing a fitting like this one is well within the capabilities of a good DIYer.
However - knowing the hazards involved and how to avoid them is another matter entirely - that's where electrical training is vital.
Knowing about earthing , why it's important, how to achieve it and how to test to ensure the loop impedance will be low enough to disconnect the supply in the event of a fault - that's where training and knowledge of the regs comes in. The OP admits he's only an average DIYer. 13A plugs? - well, at least they're not made of metal!

Mark,
You are installing a metal cased fitting. If a fault occurs on it some time and the connection to earth is not present or of the correct maximum ohmic value, the exposed metal parts can become live. This could be lethal for anyone who touches it. The metal must be connected to the earth conductor at the ceiling rose terminal - that's simple and you've done it. However, you then need to know that the connection is healthy all the way back to the main earthing terminal in the consumer unit which feeds the light. It must have a certain maximum impedance, so that if a fault to earth occurs the current will be high enough to trip the circuit breaker ( or blow a fuse) within a prescribed minimum time ( usually 0.4 secs). This is where testing is essential.
This is why I suggest you ask an electrician to test the completed work for you. A little knowledge really is a dangerous thing !
Sorry if I come over a bit strong, but electrical safety really is a matter of life and death.

 

[DPG]

I can see your point Generator, but I still maintain that a light fitting can be changed by a competent DIYer.

I fully understand electrical safety and have often been called on to advise on such matters.

A question - do you think people should be able to change brake pads on their own cars, assuming they are aware of the dangers?

 

[Mark Huddleston]

I understand both your points. We are currently decorating the house room by room and also plan to change the cheap 20 year old plastic light switches and sockets for metal ones in every room. I think it may be a little overkill to have an electrician check the light fitting I’ve just fitted by itself but I think it’s definitely worth doing when I’ve managed to get round the whole house.

 

[Generator]

DPG,
the point is, it's a metal fitting - need I say more? As for brake pads, I've done plenty myself (filthy job!). Able is the operative word. At least you can see it's done properly - given the knowledge and experience that is. Needs a quick road test to be sure though!
I let someone else do it these days - one hopes they use the rolling road tester!

Mark,
good idea - just don't touch the fitting till you've had it tested!

 

[A032701]

appreciate your concern gen
bit pathetic to argue over weather you need a qualified sparkie to change a light fitting. atb mark.

 

[DPG]

Generator, nobody can SEE if a bolt is done up tight enough when they've done work on a car's brakes. Same difference.

And by the way, the garage that change your brake pads won't test it on a rolling road afterwards!

 

[Generator]

What's the weather got to do with it?

 

[A032701]

got grade 9 in SPaG english btw

 

[telectrix]

DPG,
the point is, it's a metal fitting - need I say more? As for brake pads, I've done plenty myself (filthy job!). Able is the operative word. At least you can see it's done properly - given the knowledge and experience that is. Needs a quick road test to be sure though!
I let someone else do it these days - one hopes they use the rolling road tester!

Mark,
good idea - just don't touch the fitting till you've had it tested!

you mean you don't fix the brakes on mother-in-law's car?? a missed opportunity there, my friend. .