Level of qualification needed to obtain licence?

[jaypp]

I voted 'other'. I think 2365 level 3 is acceptable if working under 'supervision' ie for an approved spark registered with recognised body. I also think that 'surprise checks' should be made by bodies rather than the installer choosing which jobs are seen, e.g. a call to say 'we're in your area this week and can we meet you on-site to check work in progress'.
Also, just a point regarding time served, full apprentice, am2 etc sparks, I have seen some of the roughest work (excluding 'non qualified' sparks) from these people, albeit a minority, usually where numbers don't allow perpetrators to be (officially) identified. I,m NOT saying anyone here would do that.

 

[UNG]

Yay !! Unions to the rescue !! lol
Lets bring back all the 70's socialist propaganda , high unemployment & high taxation while were at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos were on strike ?
yep another union epic fail.
you need to fast forward a few decades pal cos no-ones buying into that crap anymore.

What are you on about I never suggested bringing back the unions only that we need one united stance on a baseline qualification requirement for all electrical work and not splitting it into domestic, commercial and industrial with all the extra costs that would entail

 

[UNG]

Indeed, so let's let the sh*te sparkies continue to wreak their havoc ( after all they are qualified). Sorry I disagree with your thesis, but qualifications are not enough. The inspection of your work by an independent body has to be the benchmark to raise standards.

Thoroughly agree Southsea, bad sparks have always been around, licensing without regular "unannounced" spot checks just gives them legitimacy and turns a blind eye the endemic issues....
Another point are those time served who sit basic stuff like the 2382 over and over and over and over, yet are allowed to keep working on homes and businesses despite their knowledge being well below par...

Pray tell what is going to pay for all these inspections you want. What we need is a cost effective licensing system not one that is totally unaffordable

so what about all them that work in these short course Electrical Trainee training centres then?

dont try telling me they dont know, are actively involved in and contribute to the out n out shambles we have at the mo..

they are contributing (knowingly) to it as a lot of these characters will have vested interests themselves...maybe even own a slice of the training centre they slither about in...

Obviously they have no self respect I know a few sparks who were useless on the tools and guess where they ended up teaching as the saying goes "those that can't teach"

 

[overskilled]

What are you on about I never suggested bringing back the unions only that we need one united stance on a baseline qualification requirement for all electrical work and not splitting it into domestic, commercial and industrial with all the extra costs that would entail

Why then is it ok for nearly every other trade to be broken down?
joiners - first fix, second fix, finishing joiners as an example....
The risk is...you end up with an industry of jack of all sparking, master of none....
If you never do domestic but are licenced for it, then your going to get rusty and make mistakes..whereas being licenced for industrial only for those that work in the industrial field removes the temptation for some to delve into areas they don't work within...
though its not going to stop joe public getting dave from down the local to do it....

 

[overskilled]

Pray tell what is going to pay for all these inspections you want. What we need is a cost effective licensing system not one that is totally unaffordable

Without oversight a licencing system is a waste of time and money, and does nothing to improve standards.....
By your theory there is no need for traffic cops nor speed enforcement as EVERY driver has a licence...utter and total merde.....
Having a licence to practice is a privelige and should be accompanied by proper oversight, not a return to the closed shops of yesteryear, where anything goes (and frequently did) and no one weeds out those pumping out crap work...but hey lets pretend that time served and JIB approved sparks are ALL paragons of virtue and none of them bodge work and cut corners religiously.....must be some good stuff your smoking there....really good stuff....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Why then is it ok for nearly every other trade to be broken down?
joiners - first fix, second fix, finishing joiners as an example....
The risk is...you end up with an industry of jack of all sparking, master of none....
If you never do domestic but are licenced for it, then your going to get rusty and make mistakes..whereas being licenced for industrial only for those that work in the industrial field removes the temptation for some to delve into areas they don't work within...
though its not going to stop joe public getting dave from down the local to do it....

but increasingly now its Yarric/Darric and his mate Roman who you find have been in there...

 

[overskilled]

Anyone know a polish brickie...could do with getting some walls sorted out come to think of it...lol

 

[UNG]

Without oversight a licencing system is a waste of time and money, and does nothing to improve standards.....
By your theory there is no need for traffic cops nor speed enforcement as EVERY driver has a licence...utter and total merde.....
Having a licence to practice is a privelige and should be accompanied by proper oversight, not a return to the closed shops of yesteryear, where anything goes (and frequently did) and no one weeds out those pumping out crap work...but hey lets pretend that time served and JIB approved sparks are ALL paragons of virtue and none of them bodge work and cut corners religiously.....must be some good stuff your smoking there....really good stuff....

You still haven't answered the question so I do wonder what your smoking or are you in a room full of mirrors as well

What pays for all these inspections while still keeping it affordable

 

[timo1]

Completely disagree mate. It's a common misconception that the 2391/94/95 sorts the wheat from the chaff. Too many 5WWs hold it as they have been schooled for the exam and dragged through it on their course.

I specifically left this qual out of the poll for this very reason

Hi,

Not having a go, but how can you claim this is not a Electrical Trainee bashing thread when you have specifically left out 2391 in order to exclude them? Surely if you pass 2391 this displays competance as it requires a good level of knowledge?

 

[UNG]

Why then is it ok for nearly every other trade to be broken down?
joiners - first fix, second fix, finishing joiners as an example....
The risk is...you end up with an industry of jack of all sparking, master of none....
If you never do domestic but are licenced for it, then your going to get rusty and make mistakes..whereas being licenced for industrial only for those that work in the industrial field removes the temptation for some to delve into areas they don't work within...
though its not going to stop joe public getting dave from down the local to do it....

Yes they are all joiners I know a few that do first fix through to finishing they don't carry a licence to mark themselves out as one particular sector although the rough ones only tend do the first fix work

I don't go along with getting rusty on domestic because you only do industrial, worked on many factory office blocks that are nothing more than a large domestic installation with sockets and power then the week after installing large armoured's on the factory floor for the process plant

Having worked across all the sectors for the last 35+ years I don't see any need for a complicated multi licensing scheme the only thing that attracts rust are the tools that are not used for a while it's certainly not how to handle domestic, commercial or industrial work

The failing of Part P is that a non scheme spark can't do certain electrical work on his own house unless he pays building control from what I understand your licensing idea will just perpetuate this by creating a demarcation though the industry

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi,

Not having a go, but how can you claim this is not a Electrical Trainee bashing thread when you have specifically left out 2391 in order to exclude them? Surely if you pass 2391 this displays competance as it requires a good level of knowledge?

its an inspection & testing course...under controlled conditions...in a booth....testing on 4 different rigs with pre-defined circuits and faults (both visual & values)....

hardly the real world is it...

 

[UNG]

Hi,

Not having a go, but how can you claim this is not a Electrical Trainee bashing thread when you have specifically left out 2391 in order to exclude them? Surely if you pass 2391 this displays competance as it requires a good level of knowledge?

Or a good memory if you look at enough past papers and I know of one 2391 lecturer who spent 2 and bit hours per week for 12 weeks going through past papers on the principle that each paper was made up of XX questions from a question pool so you were more than likely to have seen the questions before you got to the exam

And before anyone says anything he wasn't the lecturer when I did my 2391 course and exam

 

[MDJ]

Being able to test and inspect is not the same as being a qualified spark Timo, as for the question in the OP, I voted for NVQ 3 and AM2

 

[overskilled]

[video=youtube;768h3Tz4Qik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik[/video]

starting to sound like this in here, especially in respect to those non time served.....

 

[ipf]

Why then is it ok for nearly every other trade to be broken down?
joiners - first fix, second fix, finishing joiners as an example....
The risk is...you end up with an industry of jack of all sparking, master of none....
If you never do domestic but are licenced for it, then your going to get rusty and make mistakes..whereas being licenced for industrial only for those that work in the industrial field removes the temptation for some to delve into areas they don't work within...
though its not going to stop joe public getting dave from down the local to do it....

I find your 'risk' assessment insulting, to say the least. Having been a fully qualified electrician/technician for the best part of forty years, I find your comments totally ignorant and typical of today's fast track abomination. This just about sums up the attitude and lack of knowledge being put forward. For heaven's sake.....you need your bubble bursting.
'jack of all sparking, master of none'.....absolute S****. Just shows some peoples' limitations....and boy, are there plenty.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[overskilled]

Ahh the old "I've been doing this for 30/40/45/50 years" an utterly meaningless statement at the best of times and frequently trotted out as some kind trump card....especially when regs change and the "old and bold" cling to the old ways of working....
You find it insulting....my don't we have a thin skin, whats next "In my day".....
Glad to see modesty still exists in the "older generation" </sarcasm>

 

[overskilled]

So your telling me, that you would be happy for someone to work on an industrial site without any assessment of their current skillbase just because they years ago passed the "electricians licence" and since haven't touched an industrial installation?
...and people wonder why H&S practitioners in this country are so over the top....no wonder....

 

[southsea1201]

[video=youtube;768h3Tz4Qik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik[/video]

starting to sound like this in here, especially in respect to those non time served.....

Luddites in action.............

 

[ipf]

Ahh the old "I've been doing this for 30/40/45/50 years" an utterly meaningless statement at the best of times and frequently trotted out as some kind trump card....especially when regs change and the "old and bold" cling to the old ways of working....
You find it insulting....my don't we have a thin skin, whats next "In my day".....
Glad to see modesty still exists in the "older generation" </sarcasm>

If you can do it, you can do it....when you,ve done it, it proves it.

 

[Guest569]

How many qualifications will people be willing to gain for £13 per hour ?