Lighting Circuit no CPC

[Octopus]

All,

Looking for opinions please:

Just been to see a client who has had another sparky in who has connected up an outbuilding which has a number of 2 gang sockets and lights - all from a 13A spur off the ring - no RCD protection anywhere. He was due to change the CU but has said he won't because the lighting circuit doesn't have a CPC. There are 3 metal light fittings but no metal switches.

So is he right to say that the lighting circuit must be updated before the CU can be updated?

I'd say that the CU change should take priority as there is no RCD protection on any of the sockets in the house or the out building.

As for the lighting circuit the client, could change the light fittings to class 2 fittings are thus the lighting rewire would not be essential.

The house is about 30 years old and is in a very good state of repair and furnishing - the client had thought that the lighting rewire was a simple case of pulling new cables through!

Thoughts please.

 

[pushrod]

Have a read of the ESC best practice guide http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG1v2_web.pdf

 

[pushrod]

Basically not recommended, but possible after risk assessment. The tests on page 6 make interesting reading. Think the key is whether there are simultaneously accessible extraneous conductors to class 1 light fittings.

Was thinking about something similar myself the other day and the possibility of just running a cpc to the class 1 fittings (the switches were class 2) because of major hassle of rewiring the whole lighting circuit and just noting it up on the CU.

 

[Octopus]

The best practice guide is a useful "tool". Looking at page 9 there is "change to class 2 fittings" option which is what I had in mind this morning.

Recently I had a CU change on the go and discovered that part of the lighting circuit had a CPC and some didn't. I called the Elecsa helpline and in that instance, as the client didn't want me to rip up their house that the EIC cleared stated no CPC on the lighting circuit and that the client was aware of therisks/situation.

Anyone else??

 

[oxocube]

The outhouse sockets should have rcd protection.

The lighting 'no cpc' issue is acceptable as long as you replace all class 1 accessories/fittings with class 2. I would also put a label on the cu saying 'No earth wires on lighting circuits, only use class 2 equipment'

And you must check and rectify any main bonding issues.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The outhouse sockets should have rcd protection.

The lighting 'no cpc' issue is acceptable as long as you replace all class 1 accessories/fittings with class 2. I would also put a label on the cu saying 'No earth wires on lighting circuits, only use class 2 equipment'

And you must check and rectify any main bonding issues.

Most wholesalers stock a ready made label for this.

 

[Dunc]

The outhouse sockets should have rcd protection.

The lighting 'no cpc' issue is acceptable as long as you replace all class 1 accessories/fittings with class 2. I would also put a label on the cu saying 'No earth wires on lighting circuits, only use class 2 equipment'

And you must check and rectify any main bonding issues.

I'd agree with oxo entirely here. The only other recommendation for lighting circuits with no CPC is that 30mA RCD protection is fitted but that will be happening anyway due to the CU upgrade.

 

[Octopus]

The outhouse sockets should have rcd protection.

The lighting 'no cpc' issue is acceptable as long as you replace all class 1 accessories/fittings with class 2. I would also put a label on the cu saying 'No earth wires on lighting circuits, only use class 2 equipment'

And you must check and rectify any main bonding issues.

Yes, agreed and the bonding is up to date!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Remember, that if you do follow the ESC guidelines, that you should record it as a departure on the EIC.

 

[PC Electrics]

This is useful too:
Double Insulated Lighting

Looks like you've won yourself a CU change from that other chap. Well done you - his loss for not being up to date with the advice.

 

[PC Electrics]

This is an excellent example of where one person 'trys it on' (got to have a rewire) whereas the honest trader offers alternative solutions using published best practice. Often the client can't afford the "ideal" solution, so an acceptable alternative has to be found. You'll still be leaving the install in better condition and considerably safer (with RCDs) than it was before (which, really, is all pP requires).

As an example: I did a CU change this week. There was a L-E short on the ring (only one ring in the house). After much searching found a small picture pin inserted in a wall which had caused the short. Taking the pin out didn't resolve the short. So turned the ring into 2x radials.
Whats horific here is that the pin must have been live!! If anyone had touched it.....well you know the rest of the song. On the other hand an RCD would have picked up that 'fault' immediately the pin was inserted.
RCDs are life savers and they do not require a cpc to work.