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Hey guys !

So on Job where they have converted a room into studio flat inc a Kitchen
prob is its so tight in there its a real squeeze to get anything in.
Basically got elec Hob and oven. both fed in 6mm to cooker switch and plate. one of each for hob and cooker.
But they are located in the back of cupboard. low level. Fixed onto fabric of building.
My point is. I looking for reg on this. i know it gives preferred not fixed to kitchen fixtures but what about still being in cupboard not fixed. If we labelled at board location and maybe in cupboard. I personally have always had Cooker switches visable.
Is this still cool to have like this and could anyone point me to particular regs dealing with..i was thinking 537.3.2.5 and around

thanks
 
SOrry also forgot. Another part of job has a bathroom with a cupboard unit in there basically at end of bath. has a sinlge socket in there with a washing machine. has door on it totally enclosed. Now i know its 3m regardless from zone 1 which this aint, but being in this little self contained unit behind a washing machine which aint moving anyway, could this be allowed>?
 
Were these a daft thicko questions ? Im guessing they may of been. any takers, even if its to call me a numbty?
 
You have to consider what is the purpose of the cooker isolator.
If it is for functional switching, and isolation for maintenance, then having the isolator in a cupboard is fine.
However, if the isolator is for emergency switching, then it should be readily placed and easily identifyable.
 
Vaguely remember talking to nieiec tech about sockets in a shower room. This was in a beauty salon for tanning and the likes. I forget the reg it relates to but you can have a socket outlet in the same withing 1200mm if it a loose shower curtain and 800mm if its a fixed cubicle. Also circuit had to be protected via RCD protection.

Mike
 
Thanks guys. Yeah i would consider for cooker functional switching for maintenance as the circuit has RCD protection, and satisfactory cable and device rating. its a sound install, labelled and within 2m of cooker lower level and could be isolated with ease for maintenance..


As regards the beauty salon shower room interesting, This particular install again is sound RCD protection, correct cable and rating device's and in an enclosed unit but the unit it self is at end of bath. but as said the unit is for washing machine fixed in and has door on it..... May thing was i wanted to find out was does this unit become a seperate room so to speak, and not under any of the zone regulations. the socket is if unit was not there about 0.5 M away from edge of zone 1. but its in a sealed unit..

anyway nice one guys for reply..thanks
 
The cupboard and washing machine are in zone 2. Permanent equipment is only allowed in zone 2 if its IPx4 (IPx5 if water jets) rated, but the supply for the machine would have to be outside the zones via an FCU or >3m from boundary of zone 1 if from a socket outlet, in both cases 30mA RCD protected. Calling the cupboard an enclosure only accessible with a key or tool is (typo...not...ignore) an option to get round this because the Section 701 zone regs take precedence.
 
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Cooker switches located in the ''back'' of cupboards, is all fine and good ??? Is someone having a laugh here or what?? Think people, ...cupboards tend to get filled with stuff, are you seriously saying it meets functional needs, if you have to empty a cupboard out to switch off a cooker??? God forbid the consequences if it ever had to be got too in an emergency!!!! A bit of commonsense is needed here me thinks!!!
 
The cupboard and washing machine are in zone 2. Permanent equipment is only allowed in zone 2 if its IPx4 (IPx5 if water jets) rated, but the supply for the machine would have to be outside the zones via an FCU or >3m from boundary of zone 1 if from a socket outlet, in both cases RCD protected. Calling the cupboard an enclosure only accessible with a key or tool is not an option to get round this because the Section 701 zone regs take precedence.

Hi Markie think you might be wrong on this one (not betting my life on it mind lol) Think i have seen it fairly clearly but can't remember where - so the only support i have for it would be p169 App 7 BRB at the bottom where it says spaces under bath accessible only with tool are outside the zones. Fairly certain a cupboard with a lockable door is also said to be outside the zones.

Cooker switches located in the ''back'' of cupboards, is all fine and good ??? Is someone having a laugh here or what?? Think people, ...cupboards tend to get filled with stuff, are you seriously saying it meets functional needs, if you have to empty a cupboard out to switch off a cooker??? God forbid the consequences if it ever had to be got too in an emergency!!!! A bit of commonsense is needed here me thinks!!!

I am sure there is 5 pages on this somewhere lol
 
Hi pushrod, sorry in my earlier post I had a typo in the last sentence:mad:, which should have been a positive statement as away round the zone 2 issue:D, the addition of 'not' made it read the opposite of what I had intended, I was in such a rush to post as I had been called out....Doh!
We are on the same wavelength 701.32.3 referring to the under bath space normally zone 1 which if accessible only with a key or a tool is then deemed outside the zones and the very point I was trying to make earlier (badly) by extrapolation, in respect of the washing machine and cupboard.
 
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Cooker switches located in the ''back'' of cupboards, is all fine and good ??? Is someone having a laugh here or what?? Think people, ...cupboards tend to get filled with stuff, are you seriously saying it meets functional needs, if you have to empty a cupboard out to switch off a cooker??? God forbid the consequences if it ever had to be got too in an emergency!!!! A bit of commonsense is needed here me thinks!!!

Why would it not meet functional needs?
Is having a cooker switch in a cupboard any different to having a socket-outlet behind an appliance?
As for emergency switching, I think you should consider just what emergency you would be switching for.
 
I think the Chief Fire Officer might think an oven fire or chip pan blaze IS an emergency, and would expect to find easily accessible and obvious local isolation, the delay trying to find local or main isolation could be critical. Certainly any property subject to a formal fire safety inspection would not get away with a hidden CCU. BS4177 CCUs are deemed suitable for isolation, emergency switching and functional switching.
 
Why would it not meet functional needs?
Is having a cooker switch in a cupboard any different to having a socket-outlet behind an appliance?
As for emergency switching, I think you should consider just what emergency you would be switching for.

A cooker switch in a cupboard is the means of isolation for the cooker outlet, just like there should be for a hidden socket behind an appliance, which is why we fit FCU's above the worktops or grid switches... A means of accessible isolation is required for any outlet.. Am I right?
 
I am sure there is 5 pages on this somewhere lol

LOL Yes i found those pages now ! hahah......quite a debate that was, but great food for thought of the cooker iso side of things.

Yea I noticed the App 7 pages and had those same thoughts, Its a kinda not what i would want at all but to say the landlord is not having his washing machine
seems to be a no no....I was thinking to stick a IP65 proof spur in back of unit so its fixed app then. Supply then protected from water and machine cant be un plugged . ?

What you think.
But i guessing the issue would be the machine its self not being IP rated to the level needed
 
It's only just occurred to me that trying to extrapolate 701.32.3 (referring to the under bath space normally zone 1 which if accessible only with a key or a tool is then considered outside the zones) to fit the washing machine in the cupboard situation is a non-starter, because the above regulation is intended to apply to access by competent persons and NOT by ordinary persons as would be the case in respect to the washing machine in the cupboard...bummer!:(
 
EGBR 5.3.1 gives concise guidance and definitive answer...
Washing machines and tumble dryers may be installed in a bathroom provided they are:
1) installed outside the zones.
2) supplied from a FCU outside the zones or a socket outlet >3m from zone 1.
3) protected by 30mA RCD.
4) permitted for such installation by the manufacturer.
I think that also summarises where we got to via an intellectual detour.
 
Why would it not meet functional needs?
Is having a cooker switch in a cupboard any different to having a socket-outlet behind an appliance?
As for emergency switching, I think you should consider just what emergency you would be switching for.

Come on Spin, defending a cooker switch location buried behind pots, pans and god knows what else at the back of a cupboard?? Your far better than that mate!!!
 
Question taken from the ESC website.
NDQ34 "Is it acceptable to mount a cooker switch in a kitchen cupboard that is adjacent to the cooking appliance"
Answer
NDA34 "Yes, provided that the switch is located so as to be readily accessible"

So it would seem there is a middle ground. I would suggest moving the switch towards the front of the cupboard so as to make it more readily accessible.
 
to fit the washing machine in the cupboard situation is a non-starter, because the above regulation is intended to apply to access by competent persons and NOT by ordinary persons as would be the case in respect to the washing machine in the cupboard...bummer!:(

Yeah totally ! i thought that when read, trained person or under supervision, i think isnt it....yeah Bummer !....
 

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