Loop at switch - 2 gang switch

[Midwest]

update, i have now identified 2 'live' cables that form the ring, I have also identified the cable that goes to the light in my cellar, so the 2 lives are in a COM terminal and the light in the FL2 terminal, whenI swap out the L2 terminal for either of the other 2 wires the circuit trips, if I just leave the 2 lives in the COM terminal all the other downstairs lights work apart from the cellar and the kitchen. One of the rogue wires is for the light in the kitchen so I am assuming that there may be something wrong with the light fitting or bulb but still not sure what the other wire is for!!

I would advise cessation of this cause of action. Put your feet up, go watch the telly, and call an electrician in on Monday.

 

[westward10]

The chances on anyone being confident enough to tell you what is what from a distance is less than zero. You need professional help.

 

[Loki]

View attachment 42341

From your photo & you saying about 5 sets of cables & your expecting 4 sets etc.

Have you tried drawing out the circuits to understand how its wired?

As we are not there to confirm via testing
Ive done a very rough & quick drawing of the possible setup.

Looks like they have used L2 ( also L2s are linked together) as feed in & outs & the two Coms go to each light rose, blacks are neutrals together in a connector block & earths together in a connector block. looks like that 5th set is being used to feed out to another light circuit.

Here's my very quick & rough drawing of what your circuit could be but without testing to confirm if it is or not.

 

[Midwest]

Have you tried drawing out the circuits to understand how its wired?

I don't think thats going to help.

 

[westward10]

Did you have a Spirograph.

 

[westward10]

That switch doesn't appear to have a back box.

 

[Loki]

That switch doesn't appear to have a back box.

Its a see through perspex pattress box lol

 

[Loki]

Did you have a Spirograph.

Lol I did say "Ive done a very rough & quick drawing"
Sorry I'm no Tony Hart lol

 

[Loki]

Do you think John Ward would be interested in me doing his drawings for his videos

 

[westward10]

Do you think John Ward would be interested in me doing his drawings for his videos

Might make his vids more interesting, he could clear a graveyard.

 

[snowhead]

I don't think anyone has asked yet,
Did both switches function correctly before you started, i.e switch specific lights on and off?

If so then someone hadn't done something wrong, it was all working.
What is it you were trying achieve at the start, fitting a new switch or making both switches work if they didn't?

 

[westward10]

I think Loki's pic is nigh on correct. The wiring looks over 40 yrs old and the method is somewhat unusual.

 

[littlespark]

The idea is to identify the cables first, with tape or a little dab from a marker pen on the cables first, then take a photo BEFORE disconnecting anything.
Change switch putting the cables back where they were, according to your original picture.

If all you are doing is swapping reds about, leaving all the blacks together, you wont trip the MCB. Either some, if not all the lights wont work at all, or will be on all the time.

Lights are not wired in a "ring"

You must have 3 lives there if each switch controls only one light each. Its very possible for ease of installation in the first place.

It looks like someone originally saw the switch, looked at "L1" and decided that's where the lives go.

Trial and error, you will get there, but a professional with a test kit would be able to fix in short space of time.

 

[dksanders]

I think I have identified my two live wires, I know that one of them is a grey T&E and the other T&E goes to a light in my cellar, so I attached one to COM and the other to L2 and then attached one of the other red cables to COM, the light in the cellar came on, so presume this means that the ring has completed as it didn't trip? So if I now do the same with the other red cables I should be able to identify the other light's cable and presumably the one that isn't doing anything? Does this sound about right?

That's an awful mess, all the exposed copper at the switch terminals etc.

You don't sound like you know about 2 way switching and you consider a lighting circuit to be a 'ring' so I'll say it, get an electrician in.

 

[Pete999]

Nobody has said 'get an electrician in' yet!

Oh go on then "get an Electrician in to sort your problem out" been dying to say that all day.

 

[Toneyz]

Oh go on then "get an Electrician in to sort your problem out" been dying to say that all day.

Well if he keeps on messing around with the switch he may have to.

 

[Cod58]

Thanks for your replies, I now have the downstairs lights working, I managed to work out which cables made up the loop in the back of the switch and then worked out which wire ran to the cellar lights and which one ran to the light in the kitchen, the other wire is still confusing me though. When connecting the kitchen light it trips the fuse for the lights, am assuming that this would mean there is an issue with either the light fitting itself or the wire leading to it. so, the problem is almost sorted, at least we have some light in the kitchen from under cupboard lights.

 

[Toneyz]

So you have a 2g switch which you are changing to new, one switch does the cellar light(s) the other the ceiling kitchen light. Then how are these under unit kitchen lights switched and what box is this switch mounted on?

 

[littlespark]

under cabinet lights must be off a different circuit - plugged into sockets.
There must be a short between that red and neutral/earth somewhere.
Have you done any other work that may have caused it?
Screwed into a wall and damaged a cable?

A professional with a test kit will be able to find it.

 

[camerabloke]

I bet when he’s connecting 5th cable he’s wiring l and n across the switch.