Machine workshop install.

[ackbarthestar]

I've just got back from looking at a job. He requires 6 3-phase machines installed throughout a workshop to supplement the 4 other machines. Very straightforward, until I saw the internal structure. Steel framed building with, what looks like, asbestos panels on the walls and ceiling / roof. Then each of the original machines are fed via Galv 20mm2 floor conduits, surface mounted with surface mounted 3-phase sockets !

Besides dropping some studding and running 50mm2 trunking to unistrut poles with isolators etc . What should I do about the original floor conduits ?

 

[benji]

whats wrong with the original floor conduits ?

 

[ackbarthestar]

whats wrong with the original floor conduits ?

Surface mounted across the floor of a busy machine shop ?!

 

[Engineer54]

Very shiny conduits then, and maybe somewhat not as circular as when installed...lol!!

Now, where's that company designated safety officer?? Maybe in hospital with a cracked head, or broken leg from tripping over them there conduits...lol!!


:iamwithstupid:

 

[ackbarthestar]

E54, that's precisely what I thought.

I would like to run SWA on tray but there seems very little to fix to unless I drill the steel support girders, not particularly a good idea since I'm not a structural engineer and as far as I've been aware its always been regarded as dodgy practice.

 

[benji]

asbestos on walls & ceiling you,ve only got the floor left ,ok chase them into floor

 

[Darkwood]

drill and tap the steel that way i believe it retains it structural integrety but will stand corrected if someone knows better, you can also use girder caddies to either mount a plate or saddle or clamp a strut then your options are opened up.

 

[ackbarthestar]

If I can drill and tap unistrut to the steel girders and then mount the tray on the unistrut away from the panelling, that maybe the way to go.

Thanks to all

 

[DHES]

Why not use unistrut window brackets they go over the unistrut and clamp onto the steel work with no need to drill the steels. I would put a link on but don't know how to with my phone. Look on the hobby homes website and you should see what I mean


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[johnboy6083]

Use G clamps, with power arms mounted onto the strut that the g clamps hold in place. There is so much unisrut gear about, so that you should never have to drill. Even If it means two bits of strut either side of the beam, and stud used to pull them together.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I don't use this stuff that often and I'm aware that there are lots of didgery doos that can be bolted on to get round securing problems.
So I've requested more info from a couple of suppliers and see what turns up......

 

[Engineer54]

As i normally work on the larger projects, i've always had to consult the Structural Engineer on site, whenever it's been needed to drill into this material or that material, or have them calculate ceiling strength for any heavy point loading etc.

Now, whenever a query as to drilling structural steel columns/beams or struts has been made, i can't think of a single time it's ever been refused . I remember asking once or twice, what's the problem with drilling structural steel? They just laugh and say what would you expect to happen to 1/2'' / 3/4'' steel, by drilling four 14mm clearance holes and filling them with a high tension steel nut and bolt?? Different if you were wanting to drill a 4'' or 6'' hole for a pipe, or cut a section out of the column or beam etc, of the same diameter, that would need looking into!!! I guess it's the same with boring holes in wooden joists of a house, except your not even filling them, apart from cables that is...lol!!

So it seems to be another of those myth's that abound ours and others in the construction game!!! But i or the contractor still have to get there OK before drilling these things!! lol!!!

 

[ackbarthestar]

Nice one....
We were always taught never to drill into supporting RSJs and the like.
Looking at the structure I don't think it qualifies as a high rise ... so should be Ok

 

[mackers]

what about using the caddys/brackets then hanging chain and cable basket ?

 

[ackbarthestar]

what about using the caddys/brackets then hanging chain and cable basket ?

Its a possibility, but didn't consider the idea of craddling the cables in a basket.

 

[Knobhead]

I don’t like drilling steelwork but at times, needs must. As E54 said so long as you’re not chopping great holes in the steel there should be no problem. (When the building falls down it was nothing to do with me).

As to the floor mounted conduit, have they asked you to alter it? If they have then go overhead with your new stuff. If they don’t want it altered then it’s not you’re problem, but it would be good to point it out.

I’ve got to admit I do like playing with Mechano (sorry Unistrut).

 

[Guest123]

There really is so many different kinds of fixing gear around, any wholesaler should be able to source what you need.

These are the aforementioned 'window brackets'.

 

[ackbarthestar]

The RSJ's and angle irons are are turned to face the inside of the building. Panels of an 'unknown' material fill in the spaces. So you're left with just the faces of the girdered supports. Drilling and self tappers may be the only solution.

 

[Dan the spark]

I'm with dhes, window brackets all the way. Will save u a lot of time......and drill bits

 

[Darkwood]

The RSJ's and angle irons are are turned to face the inside of the building. Panels of an 'unknown' material fill in the spaces. So you're left with just the faces of the girdered supports. Drilling and self tappers may be the only solution.

As ive already mentioned; Window brackets are unsuitable for your needs here due to the approx 1" surround that sticks out on the fixing side, what you need is a bracket like a squashed Z which bolts to strut and lips over girder (their name eludes me), one of these either side of girder give you a fixing that is the same as a window bracket but without it interfering with the fixing surface of the strut.....

@Dan the spark ??? if your still going through drill bits when drilling RSJ's your either using the wrong kind of drills or not lubing them sufficiently or even not controlling the speed properly, i drill alot or steel from strut to girders on a regular basis, using a pilot bit sometimes helps too and a pack of good quality speed bits should give you a few years repeated use, ive just sharpened a 6mm bit for the first time after doing approx 80 holes in girderwork in the space of 2weeks. Agree the pilot bits do snap occasionally but thats due to the drills torque control been too heavy for such a small bit.