Mandatory EICRs in Rental Properties - 1 year or 5 years

[Spazz]

Please post your comments on here - state if you think EICRs should be done every year or 5 years.
Also please state your reason behind your choice - please don't put money!, profit for us, cost to landlords etc!

I will put this forward to Parliament in favor of which one is considered best by the experts in the field (us)

Please sticky this as well please

 

[truckster]

Short term rentals= every year
Long term rentals=5 years max

It depends on the number of changes of tenancy, some of whom like to play about with the electrics whilst a long term tenant may treat the place with a little more respect. It should also be mandatory that any electrical work is done by a professional not the landlords mate.

 

[Dave 85]

Every 5 years wouldn't be entirely unreasonable. Every year would be entirely unreasonable. I do not support things that allow the government to force people to be financially raped on a regular basis.

If it saved a single life a year I would be suprised and certainly dont think that would justify it.
Half a million people die every year in the uk. Millions of people happily smoke and drink themselves to death. If you really wanna save some lives, why not recommend the government ban smoking, drinking, driving, excessive eating, suicide, cycling on roads, horse riding and staircases (655 people died in 2010 in falls on and from steps and stairs, why not force us all to have our staircase inspected every year for 300 quid).
Why are you on such a campaign to persecute landlords Nick? What have they ever done to you?

 

[i=p/u]

good points dave 85.

 

[Geoffsd]

I have nothing against this proposal, per se.
It may be a good idea.

It's just unnecessary. A politician with a bee in his bonnet which nothing or no one can shift.
I'm tempted to say that Nicholas would make an excellent politician but he'd think that was a good thing.

After I posted similar comments to dave 85, Nicholas informed us that his Grandfather owns and lets fifteen properties so I can only assume that he is a really bad landlord and has scared Nicholas into this crusade.

Nicholas

People in Britain, sixty million .
Life expectancy, seventy years.
Number of deaths per year, eight hundred and fifty seven thousand.

Deaths as a result of faulty electrics in rented accommodation - no one knows - any ???

 

[Spazz]

Geoffsd - my grandfather has nothing to do with it!
He has RCDs installed in all his properties and EICRs every tenant (unless we have to do a rewire after the bloody druggies rip it apart)

I have seen endless rental properties with no bonding, no RCD, no checks, poor IR readings, need I go on!
All of these however keep their gas up - why because they have to!

They do the gas because its law - andhave the attitude when electric comes law they will do the electric as well - but not till then!

 

[alli]

After seeing some dreadfull intrusions to the electrical system from tenants, I would suggest a yearly inspection which consisted of a visual inspection with minimal testing. In my opinion a experienced electrician should quickly be able to get a feel for any problems or interference to the system that should be investigated further, or be a reason for a full ECIR. This would have the benefit of low cost to the landlord and more likely to undertaken. It could be written into the tenancy contract stating that a tenant would be liable for the cost of any extra testing, because they have interfered with the electrical system.

I would suggest that a full ECIR was done every 5 years or as a tenant left, which would give proof that the electrical system was safe for continued use every five years or is safe/unaltered at the start of the tenancy.

For example, if any alterations by a tenant resulted in a fire, proof of liability would be traceable.

I think the problem with the landlords making sure that the gas ticket is kept up against the Electric is due to education of the general public. I would suggest that most people including tenants would know about the dangers of gas appliances whether it is due to gas leaks or carbon monixide poisoning etc, etc, and the need for regular testing and servicing is needed. How many people know about the dangers of electrical systems and the possible consequences, especially considering the amount of electrical appliances conpared to the gas appliances in a typical building!!!

I believe education of the public is needed or/and some sort of restriction of the sales of electrical equipment to untrained personnel is needed, I am not talking about someone replacing a broken socket ,and for the moment forgetting about the need for proper testing with a calibrated tester and understanding the test results!! That this person would replace the cables in the socket correctly and in the whole, the installation would be in a better condition than before. I am talking about being able to purchase every component from a consumer unit to a 50 amp MCB without the knowledge of the regulations or experience of how to install them.

 

[RISElectrical]

5 yearly EICR and a yearly/change of tenant visual should be fine IMO

 

[Spazz]

A few say visual inspections but how do we conduct a visual check on the cables behind the walls?

 

[RISElectrical]

You dont need too, they are covered by the electrical check every 5 years and if the tenants have done anything to damage the cables in the wall you would be able to see it on a visual.

I am not having that a house requires a yearly full EICR. There is just no way. If thats the case then high risk industrial premises better start doing 3 monthly full inspections.

Sure having to have it done every 12 months would create a lot of work for electricians, however do you think you would be able to charge what we do now for a full inspection, the costs just don't justify the risk to life IMO.

You mention GAS being a legal requirement however look at it this way, a slight leakage to earth probably wont kill you, however i wouldnt want to go to sleep in a house with a slight gas leak or CO2 leak...

 

[Spazz]

Im not saying either way RIS. Some people have mentioned every year and some say every 5 years.
Im not putting my opinion into this at all - I purly want everyone elses opinion so I can make a case for both to Parliament on the basis of x number of industry professionals.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Please post your comments on here - state if you think EICRs should be done every year or 5 years.
Also please state your reason behind your choice - please don't put money!, profit for us, cost to landlords etc!

I will put this forward to Parliament in favor of which one is considered best by the experts in the field (us)

Please sticky this as well please

In my opinion, a 5-yearly full periodic inspection supplemented by a documented annual visual check.
This is one of the only occasions when I feel the NICEIC Visual Condition Report has any use.

Making comparisons between gas leaks and electrical faults is not a logical way to present your case-1 gas leak can take out 3 or 4 properties, killing/injuring many in the process.
Also, you mention bonding-why do you think lack of bonding is a code 2 in the latest published guidance? There are thousands (maybe millions) of properties without adequate bonding and RCD protection in this country and they've been like that for decades but people are not dropping like flies as a result.

Drop the silly RCD obsession and produce a logical and well-presented case for 5-yearly periodic inspections with interim documented visuals and I think you'll have the support of the vast majority of the electrical industry-not to mention this great forum!

 

[oldtimer]

We have come from a background of no testing at all so I would recommend that an EICR be completed every 5 years with a "mini" EICR every time there is a change of tenant between this period. A mini EICR would consist of Ze,and Zs measurements at all socket outlet and if applicable an RCD function test.

Also at there should be NO and I repeat NO visual inspections as this is not worth the paper it written on. The only other thing would be short term lets now I do work for a letting agent and they average 2-3 years but there are others + private landlords who have holiday lets and if this is the case I would say a full EICR every 5 years and a mini every year.

It also should be realised that in this current economical environment the last thing landlords need is more cost and regulation and as I live in a international tourist city Edinburgh so the full EICR every 5 and a mini every 1 year is enough to pay out as if this was to be done everytime a tenant came in then the holiday maker would just jump on a low cost flight and visit Europe where you can bet your safety boots that they will not pay the same attention to detail.

 

[IQ Electrical]

We have come from a background of no testing at all so I would recommend that an EICR be completed every 5 years with a "mini" EICR every time there is a change of tenant between this period. A mini EICR would consist of Ze,and Zs measurements at all socket outlet and if applicable an RCD function test.

Also at there should be NO and I repeat NO visual inspections as this is not worth the paper it written on. The only other thing would be short term lets now I do work for a letting agent and they average 2-3 years but there are others + private landlords who have holiday lets and if this is the case I would say a full EICR every 5 years and a mini every year.

The bulk of our work is inspection & testing and I can tell you that a MASSIVE majority of code 1 and code 2 defects are picked up on the visual part of a periodic inspection!

 

[Spazz]

As old timer said mini EICRs

How about this?
RCD test and Zs test every tenant?

I dont think there is any need to do a Ze every year as that is not going to change much and to be honest you should be able to pick that up from a Zs test.
Zs as per table in BS7671

anything above would be cause for concern and further investigation.

This way on a 8 circuit property you would only have to do a max of 8 tests total of 1hr max.

then the main EICR every 1/5 years.

This way even the landlord could do these tests if they have the kit - not worth it unless they have over 20 properties taking into account all the celebration and everthing

If was to do this i would charge £30-£50 one off (upto 12 circuits)


Quick, easy and does not eat into landlords budget - but every X years a full one done???


Also we are looking at 5 or 1 year - how about in the middle - 3 years?

 

[oldtimer]

The bulk of our work is inspection & testing and I can tell you that a MASSIVE majority of code 1 and code 2 defects are picked up on the visual part of a periodic inspection!

I am not against the visual on a PIR/EICR but I am against it as a sole means of testing between EICRs yes of course we all do a visual to see if there is any damaged equiment but say a property lost its main earth a visual is not goint to tell you that so as I said never mind £35 for a VICR more like £50 for a MEICR (M for mini) that yes does a visual but also all sockets including the cooker outlet is checked for Zs. I have pointed out and it is getting more common for a property to lose its earth for example I was asked to fix a damaged socket so I changed it and as a matter of course I tested the socket with my 1553 only to find a bad earth so I went to check the service head and there was a 16mm dangling in front of me I asked the tenant if anything had changed and he said yes Transco turned up to relocate the gas meter to outside the property and they had to dig up the street to replace the metal pipe with plastic so I suspected that his property was getting a borrowed earth.

 

[spark 68]

The 5 year mandatory EICR does make the most sense, and maybe as others have suggested a mini one say at the halfway point ?, I think this may be the the most sensible way forward.

But what about mandatory enforcing the corrections of any C1 and C2 defects picked up during the full EICR ?

As IQ suggested I would forget about RCD's being mandatory, at least for the moment, as this will probably be a step too far.

 

[Spazz]

This would be easy to enforce as well if Licencing came in - they know when a new tenant moves in from the change of name on the tax register.

or what would be easier to avoid landlords removing the corrections pages is to upload them to EH within 28 days same system as Part P work - upload them to NAPIT/NICEIC/etc and they forward them on.

I did one last month and the Pub didnt do the work and removed the 25 pages of problems and they got their entertainment licence - the licencing officer missed the 25 pages at the bottom of the first page


The licencing officer went back and asked for any problems on the cert and the owner of the pub said there was not any - licencing came to me and asked for my copy.

The owner lost his personal licence and 6 months suspended sentence

Wont get a personal licence again now

 

[Knobhead]

Yet another version of part “P”, in other words another way to screw money out of the public.

Why do some people in this trade (the scam providers and some members) think they have a right to legalised robbery?

 

[captainkev]

every three years would be reasonable, but should also for landlords and tennants benefit be checked at every change of tennant (who knows what the last guy could have done)