Mandatory EICRs in Rental Properties - 1 year or 5 years

[chris-]

how would you enforce the suicide one though

Every 5 years wouldn't be entirely unreasonable. Every year would be entirely unreasonable. I do not support things that allow the government to force people to be financially raped on a regular basis.

If it saved a single life a year I would be suprised and certainly dont think that would justify it.
Half a million people die every year in the uk. Millions of people happily smoke and drink themselves to death. If you really wanna save some lives, why not recommend the government ban smoking, drinking, driving, excessive eating, suicide, cycling on roads, horse riding and staircases (655 people died in 2010 in falls on and from steps and stairs, why not force us all to have our staircase inspected every year for 300 quid).
Why are you on such a campaign to persecute landlords Nick? What have they ever done to you?

 

[Spazz]

In Wales all landlords will have to register with the LA by the end of the year.
This will mean that the LA would have to request gas and electric certificates and ensure that they are done intime.

I cant comment on England as I not heard of any plans for licencing as yet.
Scotland already have licencing in force now

 

[andyyoyo]

Mandatory every 5 years, and on change of tenant, at the moment too many landlords just dont bother at all, I know we all want to make a bit of money, but some are just plain greedy.

 

[UNG]

Geoffsd - my grandfather has nothing to do with it!
He has RCDs installed in all his properties and EICRs every tenant (unless we have to do a rewire after the bloody druggies rip it apart)

I have seen endless rental properties with no bonding, no RCD, no checks, poor IR readings, need I go on!
All of these however keep their gas up - why because they have to!

They do the gas because its law - andhave the attitude when electric comes law they will do the electric as well - but not till then!

After seeing some dreadfull intrusions to the electrical system from tenants, I would suggest a yearly inspection which consisted of a visual inspection with minimal testing. In my opinion a experienced electrician should quickly be able to get a feel for any problems or interference to the system that should be investigated further, or be a reason for a full ECIR. This would have the benefit of low cost to the landlord and more likely to undertaken. It could be written into the tenancy contract stating that a tenant would be liable for the cost of any extra testing, because they have interfered with the electrical system.

I would suggest that a full ECIR was done every 5 years or as a tenant left, which would give proof that the electrical system was safe for continued use every five years or is safe/unaltered at the start of the tenancy.

For example, if any alterations by a tenant resulted in a fire, proof of liability would be traceable.

I think the problem with the landlords making sure that the gas ticket is kept up against the Electric is due to education of the general public. I would suggest that most people including tenants would know about the dangers of gas appliances whether it is due to gas leaks or carbon monixide poisoning etc, etc, and the need for regular testing and servicing is needed. How many people know about the dangers of electrical systems and the possible consequences, especially considering the amount of electrical appliances conpared to the gas appliances in a typical building!!!

I believe education of the public is needed or/and some sort of restriction of the sales of electrical equipment to untrained personnel is needed, I am not talking about someone replacing a broken socket ,and for the moment forgetting about the need for proper testing with a calibrated tester and understanding the test results!! That this person would replace the cables in the socket correctly and in the whole, the installation would be in a better condition than before. I am talking about being able to purchase every component from a consumer unit to a 50 amp MCB without the knowledge of the regulations or experience of how to install them.

So the landlord has a duty to protect tenants from their own stupidity

As old timer said mini EICRs

How about this?
RCD test and Zs test every tenant?

I dont think there is any need to do a Ze every year as that is not going to change much and to be honest you should be able to pick that up from a Zs test.
Zs as per table in BS7671

anything above would be cause for concern and further investigation.

This way on a 8 circuit property you would only have to do a max of 8 tests total of 1hr max.

then the main EICR every 1/5 years.

This way even the landlord could do these tests if they have the kit - not worth it unless they have over 20 properties taking into account all the celebration and everthing

If was to do this i would charge £30-£50 one off (upto 12 circuits)


Quick, easy and does not eat into landlords budget - but every X years a full one done???


Also we are looking at 5 or 1 year - how about in the middle - 3 years?

Is the landlord testing his own installation worthy of a party


While there is good intention with enforcing EICR's on rental properties, I can't help but feel that in most instances the tenant is the cause of the problem and the landlord is now expected to protect himself from the tenants wrong doing with unauthorised alterations or damage to the electrical installation

 

[Dave 85]

how would you enforce the suicide one though

Make it punishable by death, that'll learn em

 

[DurhamSparky]

In certain area's of Durham selective licencing is already in force.
(mainly run down areas that the council is regenerating)

Gas/Electricity Checks every 1/5 Years.
Inspections are carried out by the Council frequently and any property that is falling apart will be noted and landlord informed to repair.

Council are ordering CPO on certain houses that landlords have disregarded and either pulling it down or passing it on to a local housing association to regenerate.

NO LICENSE ! NO TENANT !

the area looks nicer than it was original

 

[Spazz]

have you got any paperwork on this? I could show my local LAPP - they may bring this in in Pembrokeshire as there are some really bad areas around here.

 

[IQ Electrical]

In certain area's of Durham selective licencing is already in force.
(mainly run down areas that the council is regenerating)

Gas/Electricity Checks every 1/5 Years.
Inspections are carried out by the Council frequently and any property that is falling apart will be noted and landlord informed to repair.

Council are ordering CPO on certain houses that landlords have disregarded and either pulling it down or passing it on to a local housing association to regenerate.

NO LICENSE ! NO TENANT !

the area looks nicer than it was original

Exactly the same in Newcastle-interlinked smoke/heat detection, kitchen & bathroom extract and a 'satisfactory' EICR.

 

[DurhamSparky]

Selective licensing - Durham County Council

- - - Updated - - -

did work in the Whickham View Area of the TOON... that pace needs pulling down ASAP!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

Selective licensing - Durham County Council

- - - Updated - - -

did work in the Whickham View Area of the TOON... that pace needs pulling down ASAP!!

Benwell being another example!

 

[trev]

You ever been to Byker?
Crikey that place is grim

 

[Geordie Spark]

You ever been to Byker?
Crikey that place is grim

Aye ..... there's a street called Raby Street & a pub called the Raby Arms. DON'T ever get bitten in Byker !!!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

This proposal sounds like a good idea at first glance.
However it is fraught with problems.
In England & Wales there is no particular standard that an installation has to be constructed to.
Unless it is first a statutory requirement for an installation to meet the requirements of a particular standard, it will not be possible to require an installation to be inspected to ensure that it complies with a particular standard.

 

[somersetsparks]

Like Tony says , another way of of robbing and criminalising the general public, leave us alone please,
I have tested many properties most can pass a PIR (or EICR) and I would consider safe enough to let my own family live in,

There are many just causes in this world,
This is not one of them

 

[Spazz]

I have had the Welsh Housing Minister come back to me in regards to this:

He said he thinks its going to cost the landlords more than they are currently spending now



I need an idea of how much landlords/homeowners are spending on an annual basis when they are in crisis mode only


I am thinking about £300 - £500 depending on what goes wrong (per year)


I also have to state the annual cost of EICRs every year and MEICR every change of tenant
Im thinking:
£450-£500 - first year (New CU and MEICR (IR, Zs and RCD Test)
£250 - £300 - every year (EICR and MEICR

Any other ideas on this would be greatly appreciated

I am also thinking - this should decrease insurance policies (reducing risk of fire, electric shocks, etc)

 

[Geoffsd]

Oh, dear. :willy_nilly:

 

[Octopus]

Not sure I'd be spending so much of my time on this. If and only IF this came into force the drive by testers would be out in force and the resulting EICR's wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on.

 

[somersetsparks]

Any costs incurred would go straight onto the rent,
I am a landlord And my property is obviously well kept up together with gas and is to 17th, easy when you know how ey? Knowing my tennant, I would not Test this property again for 10 years, as they are careful, there is enough sockets not to need any extras, RCBO's etc.

I have a fair amount of testing experience probably nearing 1000 houses and I can tell you, other then DIY Disaster houses most remain in the same condition for years, it is just the DIY tennants which cause the issues,
and as has been said WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO PAY TO CHECK THAT IDIOT TENNANTS HAVENT MADE THE INSTALLATION HAZARDOUS?
If they modify it against their tenancy agreement that is their fault , and theirs only.

This is just another buearocracy waiting to be introduced, another hurdle to jump over and another way of criminalising the common man,

The fact is, even in the very unlikely event of someone getting a shock from dodgy electrics it is very rarely fatal, as has been said before, this is a very minor issue,
It does not need legislation, there are plenty of major issues for the government and the public to be dealing with.

You get good landlords and you get bad, this will cost the good landlords money - and the bad won't bother anyway

 

[Spazz]

Not sure I'd be spending so much of my time on this. If and only IF this came into force the drive by testers would be out in force and the resulting EICR's wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on.

You say that - one thing he did say is:

In terms of social housing, the welsh Housing Quality Standard provides for electrical lighting, wiring and power installations to be checked and certificated safe by an appropriately qualified person.

He also said:
I will be keeping a close eye on this issue in the context of future legislation.

 

[trev]

Nicholas, the social housing providers usually have a set maintenance programme which includes inspection and test. I grew up in a council house and remember them coming round.