Mandatory EICRs in Rental Properties - 1 year or 5 years

[Spazz]

I get your point trev!

TBH if these agents and insurance companies took this on (the responsible ones are) the there would be no reason to make this law.

There are some landlords not using agents and not insuring their houses and they are the ones who are the biggest problem!

These landlords have extreamly poor everything not just electrics!

Its all the same thing - the bad ones giving a bad impression to everyone!


In regards to this person if you goggled him you will find that he already spent 5 years in the clink for death by dangerous driving as well as several other offenses - but because hes a Mason - the police around here wont touch him. If anyone dont believe me PM me and I will send you the page (BBC News).

TBH if the licencing came in to Wales and England like it is in Scotland it will save aload of problems and all these landlords will have to pull their figures out!


In regards to this law about letting people do their own electric work - I also putting this down as an alternative solution to getting a spark in and the costs encored for that - fair all around!

 

[craigj85]

Every 5 years is reasonable and the landlord should be responsible for keeping an eye on its condition inbetween or when the tenant changes. Why is it legalised robbery? It's not only the safety of the public but whoever works on it as well. in a commercial property you're supposed to have a period inspection anyway which is what a rental property is really

 

[trev]

Responsible insurance companys, are you having a laugh mate?
All they are interested in is lining their own bank accounts and finding ways not to pay out. An example, around the time of Hurricane Katrina we had very high winds which damaged our roof, we called our insurance company and long story short they said because the roof showed signs of previous repairs it was not storm damage and would not pay out
A house down the road from us is let by a guy who uses an agent. Are you claiming that this makes him a responsible landlord? Because I can assure you it does not
Re this person you're inviting me to google, I have no clue what you're getting at there.
My point with the thing about dog licences, 3rd party insurances, car insurance and other laws was that only those who comply with the law anyway are going to comply with any law you're proposing to introduce. There will always be the rogue/cowboy who will not do what they are supposed to as part p has proven time and again.
As I say, there are bigger fish to fry.

 

[trev]

I'll ask again, for the last time. With regard to your idea of making a condition report mandatory for owned properties.
What business is it of your's or anyone else's what condition my home is in?

 

[Spazz]

I only stated that if they became notifiable then homeowner properties will be be included in it as well.

Personally I dont want to know what your home looks like or how the electrics are! - if your a good boy then they are up to scratch! 100% - if your like a mechanic then you will have half finished jobs all over the place!


Again thats your business - like I said before I am doing this purely because these landlords have a duty of care over someone else (not related) where you have a duty of care of yourself and your family

 

[trev]

You're incuding it your campaign though so where are you going to draw the line? Will you allow someone to have a damp problem or a leaking roof because they don't have the cash to fix it? Like I said, we're electricians not the Stasi
A duty of care doesn't start and end with a landlord and tenant relationship. Believe it or not you have a duty of care to the postman/woman (got to be PC) when the mail is delivered. It's all there in existing laws mate.

 

[Spazz]

Exactly trev - its not in my campaign - I was just saying the ideal situation would be notify everything - it wont happen!

EICRs are going to have to be policed a the end of the day to work - how they are policed is up to the government and the LA who is tasked to police them!

When Part P comes to being changed in Wales I will be posting on here to get views of how it can be improved because there are alot on here who dont like Part P, so I need to get their opinions first before anything so I fully understand it - because I dont see a problem with Part P except commercial and industrial is not notifiable (unless electrically linked to a domestic) and the problem with these cowboys!

 

[trev]

In theory I, like many others, support regulation of our industry. It's just that the current (no pun intended) system does not and will never work

 

[somersetsparks]

Couple points,
this suggested MEICR wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on, why do an rcd test but not ring end to ends? you say you would only megger the whole installation, but this is what happens anyway, you only break it down if you get bad readings.
An EICR is hardly very thorough anyway, I for one can see no npoint in an MEICR. An average house periodic takes what 3 hours? providing all is in order? whats the point in poking around for an hour and doing a half arse job?

Anyway this is all going in the direction of 1984,
'All work in your own home must be reported to Big Brother'
Please leave us alone

 

[Des 56]

Exactly trev - its not in my campaign - I was just saying the ideal situation would be notify everything - it wont happen!

EICRs are going to have to be policed a the end of the day to work - how they are policed is up to the government and the LA who is tasked to police them!

When Part P comes to being changed in Wales I will be posting on here to get views of how it can be improved because there are alot on here who dont like Part P, so I need to get their opinions first before anything so I fully understand it - because I dont see a problem with Part P except commercial and industrial is not notifiable (unless electrically linked to a domestic) and the problem with these cowboys!

I refer you back to the reply I had off the Welsh housing minister
If part p is changed or dumped in England.Wales will consider the changes, then review those changes,they would have a consultation period and take opinions.thats before considering any changes themselves (because they said, other parts are to be treated with priority)

In effect,Wales will not see any changes for at least the next ten years,even if there was change in England

We would all be better off campaigning for reduced or no involvement from government with our industry,the interference tends to make things more expensive and worse in all aspects

 

[Spazz]

If you think about it somerset spark

R1+R2 determines the Zs reading
Zs will show up any problems with R1+R2
IR test on the whole circuit will show up any nails
IR will show up any cables close to each other
RCD will test the RCD
RCD will show up any problems with earth leackage
Visual will show up anything that looks like its been tampered with


EICR every year or 5 years
end to end
R1+R2
IR
RCD
Zs
Ze
Visual


Yes it will always be recommended that a full EICR is done - but cost cost cost!


A MEICR can be done quickly and easy - without taking anything apart - plug in and go

There needs to be a 'quick' test that can be done in about 1hr at a cheap rate to the landlord - if you kept saying you have to do EICR after EICR the landlord wont do it - but if you say EICR every 1-5 years and MEICR @ £50 every change then they will most likely go with it - plus to satisfy the Euro Law - if they can justify buying a MFT then they can and do them their-selves - but they will have to prove that they know how to use it! because if they dont the test sheet will show it up!


EICRs are expensive - especially if done every 6 months!

If an EICR is done every 5 years and a MEICR is done every 6 months (thats £650 per 5 years) based on EICR @ £200 and MEICR @ £50


Check the other 68 posts and all this has been brought up before and this is why people on here mentioned about a MEICR.

Put it this way as you can see from previous posts we have had LAs say do a visual check - NOT WORTH THE PAPER ITS WRITTEN ON

At least a MEICR has the main results and will show up any problems which will be recorded in the problem list - C1, C2, C3

 

[trev]

What about the drive bys though how are you going to combat that? As I and others have said, bring in what you're proposing and the incidence of drive by I&T will increase exponentially, thus reducing fees and making it uneconomical for anyone to do it properly. Even a perfectly reputable company could unwittingly employ a lazy git, I've seen it a boatload of times where guys make up test results.

 

[Spazz]

I refer you back to the reply I had off the Welsh housing minister
If part p is changed or dumped in England.Wales will consider the changes, then review those changes,they would have a consultation period and take opinions.thats before considering any changes themselves (because they said, other parts are to be treated with priority)

In effect,Wales will not see any changes for at least the next ten years,even if there was change in England

We would all be better off campaigning for reduced or no involvement from government with our industry,the interference tends to make things more expensive and worse in all aspects

Des you say this - what will removing Part P do?

The only thing it ill do is give free rain to anyone to do their own electrics without having a requirement to having them checked after!

This is a licence to kill!


Look at the stats and you will see how many lives where saved by Part P coming in!

Yes we still have cowboys doing work without notifying it - but the fault of that lays with the home owner! They should check for NICEIC at least!

NICEIC is widely known and something as easy as a logo on the van or ID is the easy thing- the problem is people dont check!


These customers are opening the door to these cowboys to do bog jobs then they moan because they had been told to spend more money fixing the problems!

The other big problem is some electricians are signing off Joe Blogs work! These are the worst! And there are some on here doing it - they already identified themselves on other posts!

 

[trev]

Plus, the MEICRs (which as has been pointed out do not exist), suppose you carry one out and 3 weeks later the house burns down. Fire brigade say "Electrical fault" which they always do when they can't find the cause (I have a mate in the fire service)
Who gets the blame?

 

[Spazz]

What about the drive bys though how are you going to combat that? As I and others have said, bring in what you're proposing and the incidence of drive by I&T will increase exponentially, thus reducing fees and making it uneconomical for anyone to do it properly. Even a perfectly reputable company could unwittingly employ a lazy git, I've seen it a boatload of times where guys make up test results.

And this is the problem Trev

Some so called sparks (fully trained!) will make results up, sign off others work, etc, etc, etc all because they cant be bothered to do a proper job

Like I keep saying Part P is not the issue! WE ARE!

("WE ARE!" meaning those sparks doing the comments stated above and notthose doing it by the book!)

There needs to be harder punishments on those making a mockery out of the system!


If they where MOT testers they would be inspected 3/4 times a year, plus if they took a short cut (and found out) they would lose their licence to MOT!

If a spark is found to be cheating they get a slap across the wrist and told not to do it again! - Take their membership off them and put them on a banned list for 3 years (min) F*** their future up - there is no punishment for breaking the law and putting public at risk!

 

[trev]

Logo on the van???? How many people are on their roll of shame for using the NIC logo without being a member...flippin loads.
How many lives has Part P saved...not very many I'd bet but that's a stat which we will never be able to get

The customer does not care, all they want is for the lights to go on and the idiot box in the corner to work

 

[trev]

Take their membership away... ooo thats scary, if they're doing crap work do you think not being in a scam is going to stop them. There's an NICEIC approved contractor near me, everyone knows he juices up without testing but according to him every spark in town is a cowboy, me included.
Funny how every spark in town has had him by the throat, me included hehe

 

[Spazz]

Plus, the MEICRs (which as has been pointed out do not exist), suppose you carry one out and 3 weeks later the house burns down. Fire brigade say "Electrical fault" which they always do when they can't find the cause (I have a mate in the fire service)
Who gets the blame?

Exactly the same if we do an EICR and the place burns down - whats saying we didnt make the results up - nothing!

Whos to blame?

MEICRs was just an idea - nothing else - if the law got passed then something would have to be put into place cheaper than the EICRs for change of tenancy (if put into law)


Realistically all what is needed is a 5 year inspection - this will show everything up and sort all landlords out!

 

[trev]

That recommendation is in the regs already, couple that with the EAWR then you have a law (I believe)
Although I'm an electrician not a lawyer

 

[Spazz]

This is what I said - if law changed to change of tenancy a cheaper version of the EICR will have to come out - or landlords wont do it or more fakes will be issued!

The thing is like I sad on 1st page

There is 1 law already in place but because it is so broad people don't understand it!


The Electrical Installation must be safe and maintained

This can mean anything to anyone!
This could mean wait for it to go wrong and fix it fast!


Same as with PAT testing!
the employer must provide safe and maintained electrical equipment

Again this could mean anything to anyone