Discuss MCB Problem - Possibly needs a larger rated MCB? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I’m still bemused by this fascination for radials. Once installed you’ve more or less painted your self in to a corner regarding extending circuits. Sorry it’s off topic really but it’s getting under my skin.
(Rant over)

I'm sure there's proper debate going on about the Ring v Radial question by the likes of IET or whoever. Can't be &%$&%$ed searching for it now though.
 
Your last sentence is a sweeping statement, remember this is on BS3036 board and therefore is likely to be designed to 16th edition or earlier. Just because this final circuit is not a standard circuit as defined in the OSG does not imply that it is necessarily badly designed. In fact it was probably designed prior to the inception of OSG. The increasing variety and quantity of labour saving kitchen appliances deployed in the modern kitchen has just over whelmed the original design, which was fit for purpose at the time.

Just meant that they should have thought of loading in the first place Mark.....
People always overlook what's going on the circuit, not
Having a go at the OP here just the previous installer!!
 
I’m still bemused by this fascination for radials. Once installed you’ve more or less painted your self in to a corner regarding extending circuits. Sorry it’s off topic really but it’s getting under my skin.
(Rant over)

Given the number of CU changes I do where the ring is not a ring I'd ban rings tomorrow,install more radials and a larger CU to accomodate...Rings are a pain to test,and very easy to abuse. A 20a radial would be far safer in the hands of a DIYer,kitchen fitter,5DW...etc,etc.....none of which can get within 50 yards of a ring without breaking it.
OK.....I can hear the shouts of "Well,they shouldnt effin touch it anyway"....but they do,they do.
 
radial 16amp breaker type b, ring 32amp breaker type b. If it is a type b try chaning MCB for type c. does the MCB trip or does the RCD trip?
 
radial 16amp breaker type b, ring 32amp breaker type b. If it is a type b try chaning MCB for type c. does the MCB trip or does the RCD trip?

I am not sure that this would be a good idea.
Type C devices are to used to avoid nuisance tripping and are usually on circuits where there are high inrush currents on start up - they are not used for protecting circuits that may be running at a constant overload.
 
Given the number of CU changes I do where the ring is not a ring I'd ban rings tomorrow,install more radials and a larger CU to accomodate...Rings are a pain to test,and very easy to abuse. A 20a radial would be far safer in the hands of a DIYer,kitchen fitter,5DW...etc,etc.....none of which can get within 50 yards of a ring without breaking it.
OK.....I can hear the shouts of "Well,they shouldnt effin touch it anyway"....but they do,they do.

So now we design circuits around DIY'ers, Electrical Trainee's, and kitchen fitters?? I'm afraid were going to have to disagree again!! Never heard anything like that, for a reason or excuse to base a sound electrical design on before!!!
 
throw out the dishwasher, waste of space. dry clothes on radiators, get a kettle that goes on the gas hob. ssssimplessss.
 
I'm sure I remember picking up a copy of PE a couple of years back with a large article saying how we should be all wiring kitchens in radials and it was the way forward. Came with handy diagrams and pictures. Maybe that has something to do with it. Do kitchen fitters get taught to wire this way ?

DIY radial mischief struck at my brothers new house when I went to upgrade his C/U. The builder who had lived in the house previously had installed a radial socket circuit....... that served every point in the 3 bedroom house !! It went upstairs first to the front bedroom then hit a JB that spidered off 4 ways to serve 4 sockets in the other 2 bedrooms. A spur was taken from one of these sockets downstairs where a ring had been fashioned on the end of the spur to serve downstairs rooms including the kitchen. There was one proper ring in the house at least. It served one double outlet under the kitchen worktop :S
 
So now we design circuits around DIY'ers, Electrical Trainee's, and kitchen fitters?? I'm afraid were going to have to disagree again!! Never heard anything like that, for a reason or excuse to base a sound electrical design on before!!!

Used as an example of how rings can become dangerously overloaded due to poor installation and common faults.....I've also come across plenty of rings left/installed by electricians with broken continuity. A radial is not subject to the same issues unless the OCPD rating is incorrect........I was not suggesting 5DW's and so on should be considered,merely that a radial is more forgiving of faults and poor installation which in the real world are inevitable.
 
The builder who had lived in the house previously had installed a radial socket circuit....... that served every point in the 3 bedroom house !! It went upstairs first to the front bedroom then hit a JB that spidered off 4 ways to serve 4 sockets in the other 2 bedrooms. A spur was taken from one of these sockets downstairs where a ring had been fashioned on the end of the spur to serve downstairs rooms including the kitchen. There was one proper ring in the house at least. It served one double outlet under the kitchen worktop :S

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry at that ! ! ! !
 
You would have been closer to tears if you had to rip it out and start again like I did. I'm just sooooo glad he put laminate floors in every upstairs room too. Made it so much easier.
 
I've just seen the op's new member intro. Avionics technician, that will explain the detailed question he asked. Not as wet behind the ears as we all thought.
 
I’ve got to agree with E54, why degrade a good system to accommodate incompetent installation and testing?


My point is only that I'm not sure ring finals are a good system anymore....While I still install rings by default,I wish radials were standard practice in the uk,rather than rings.
 
radial 16amp breaker type b, ring 32amp breaker type b. If it is a type b try chaning MCB for type c. does the MCB trip or does the RCD trip?

I agree with flyingsparks, this is not a good resolution,
As he said, and also I doubt the circuit would meet the lower Zs for a type c to disconnect as required
 
hi how ya doin mate well for a start tumble dryers pull savage current remember its 4.3 amps a kilo watt try a 20 or 25 amp mcb and buy a good ammeter it will tell you how much current is being pulled , when im first fixing i always runs rings especially in a kitchen where most of the power is going in a house and rings are better for testing pre and post connection
 

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