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Discuss MCS/Domestic RHI disconnect in the Renewable Heat area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. BruceB
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    BruceB Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bath/Bristol
    I think I have bumped into a small disconnect between the two schemes.

    Architect designed new-build / self-build. I install and commission ASHP and solar thermal. Client moves in a few days later. Client applies for domestic RHI a few days after that.

    Solar thermal application going through OK I think.

    For ASHP I applied the MCS Metering Guidance (flowchart page 39) and concluded that ASHP does not need metering because the house is not a second home and will be occupied more than 183 days a year, no backup heating etc.

    But the Domestic RHI team ask the client a different question which is whether the property has already been occupied more than 183 days in the last year and as that is a negative then metering required in order to apply now.

    Looking at the legislation, I think the Domestic RHI team have it right.

    So my client has 2 options, add metering to apply now, or wait the 183 days and re-apply. He will do the latter, which is what most do, say the Domestic RHI team.

    The MCS flowchart is not capturing the subtlety of the situation.
     
  2. TedM
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    TedM Electrician's Arms

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    I'd read that as a glitch in the wording of the RHI legislation.

    I can't see that a new-build was originally intended to fall under the 183 day rule. New-builds were originally excluded from RHI altogether and, IIRC, the self-build option was a later amendment. I think that 183 day rule (13(4)) should have been re-worded when self-builds were allowed but it was missed.

    A new-build, by definition, is always going to fall outside that rule.
     
  3. TedM
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    TedM Electrician's Arms

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    And when they apply after a 6 month wait they will need a Green Deal Assessment in addition to the valid EPC that they already have.
     
  4. BruceB
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    BruceB Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bath/Bristol
    In 6 months time he will still be in the category 'eligible new build', so should be exempt the green deal assessment requirement?
     
  5. TedM
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    TedM Electrician's Arms

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    It depends on the MCS commissiong date versus first occupation date. Re-reading your op I see you said this. As long as the MCS date is before the occupation date then a GD isn't needed.

    OFGEM have just published a new helpsheet on this last week - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications-and-updates/helpsheet-i-have-newly-built-house.-am-i-eligible

    It would be easy for someone to move in and then have a commissioning date the day after and then need a GD. I can see OFGEM getting sniffy about this if they ask for some documentary proof of that first occupation date.
     
  6. Worcester
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    Worcester Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Worcestershire
    We're also hitting an interesting challenge when people buy a 'new' home (i.e. old one , new to them) put in a new heating system straight away (esp biomass with the 3 monthly degressions) , and .. the systems need to be metered as the client hasn't occupied it for 183 days. In DECC's 2 year "rush" to get it right (i.e. the degression :) ) they've missed some of the subtleties, - DECC chose 7 years as that's the average time of ownership of a property, but then either it needs to be metered, or the occupier has to wait 6 months.

    I doubt either the self build or new owner scenario where properly thought through.


    "When applying, people have to confirm how many days in the past year the property was occupied. In addition each year they have to tell us how long it was occupied for. Applicants who think the property is likely to be occupied for less than 183 days in any of their seven years of payments may find it worthwhile to install meters when the system is installed."

    So it clearly wasn't MEANT to apply in the buying a new house and installing a new system scenario

    and from the latest (Feb 2015) guild on self/custom build:

    "You will still need to comply with the scheme’s general eligibility criteria. For example, if you are a custom-builder who has occupied the property for less than 183 days, you will either need to be metered for payment or you can apply after you have occupied the property for 183 days to be eligible without needing metering."
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  7. Gavin A
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    Gavin A Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Leeds
    Business Name:
    Leeds Solar
    we had this issue with one of our installs as well, had to fit a heat meter at the last minute.

    daft rule, the intention was clearly targeted at holiday lets and second homes, not new builds.
     
  8. TedM
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    TedM Electrician's Arms

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    Gordon, in your example this should be OK. The question is whether the building was occupied not if the present owner occupied it.

    In any case the legislation (The Domestic Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme Regulations 2014) needs to be changed as it was poorly drafted and OFGEM are merely following it slavishly.

    So what is needed is for 13 (4) to be amended to read:

     
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  9. The Solar King
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    The Solar King Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    We may see the back of the need for a Green Deal assessment. Itis widely acknowledged the domestic RHI is tanking. There was a recent STA working group meeting attended by DECC where a number of observations and asks were made. Most of this was taken on board. As the GD itself can hardly be called a success, this criteria may change.

    I think it unlikely that building energy performance requirements will disappear completely, but could well be modified for some technologies. (notably solar thermal as they have zero effect on hot water demand).
     
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