My first difficult client!

[HappyHippyDad]

3 weeks ago I did the first fix on a refurbishment of kitchen. I have only just had a phone call to come and do the second fix.

The customer is unhappy as the builder has said he cannot use the cable I had in position for the downlights? He has gone ahead and put the ceiling up and just left all the cable that I had neatly dangling up in the void which is now not reachable without lifting floorboards.

He had said that he would position all the downlight holes and just pull the cable through, but the customer has said that he said the cable was not in the right position and would leave a big gap in the middle of the kitchen.

I specifically left plenty of cable (about 1.5m) dangling from the ceiling at each point so he could choose where he positioned the downlights and I spaced them out fairly evenly (as much as you can when just hanging from joists waiting for the ceiling to go up). So apart from the fact that it doesn't make sense, it would have been a good idea to call me before putting the ceiling up and hiding all my cable?

I cant get hold of the builder!

I know I'm pretty new to this game but I cant see I've done anything wrong and I have not had an unsatisfied customer before.. Have I done anything wrong here?

 

[Plonker 3]

Did you, liase with the customer or builder into regards of the positioning of the down lights or ask to be told when the ceiling would be boarded?

 

[Octopus]

Hum... never let a builder take responsibility for drilling the holes!

Why does the builder not think the cable was suitable - what was the cable and what type of lights were you fitting?

 

[flowlec1]

You should make a plan then drill the holes yourself

 

[trev]

In a situation like this I always mark the walls with the position of the joists, That way you know where they are and roughly where your cables will be.
That said, the builder has no knowledge of how you selected your cables so it is easy to baffle him with calcs. Most of them are clueless when it comes to electricity mate

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Did you, liase with the customer or builder into regards of the positioning of the down lights or ask to be told when the ceiling would be boarded?

Positioning of downlights was just a straight forward 2 rows of 4, so yes to first part of your question. As for asking when the ceiling would be boarded, 'No'.. The builder has 20 years experience, I think he could have used a bit of initiative and called me before boarding up the cable, that doesn't seem very sensible. What do you think Dillb?

Hum... never let a builder take responsibility for drilling the holes!

Why does the builder not think the cable was suitable - what was the cable and what type of lights were you fitting?

Sorry Murdoch, I should have been more clear. The builder is not happy with the positioning of the cable. The client specifically wanted the builder doing as much as possible as he was a neighbour giving them a good rate so he was to position and drill holes. But it makes no sense as there was a huge amount of dangling cable to play with, with regards positioning?


The cable was (x2) T&E at each hole which would have been put into a wago and then Heat resis flex to light.

 

[Megavolt]

Allways do a plan to show you joist positions and cable positions.

Sounds like your gonna learn the hard way that most builders are tools.

 

[Plonker 3]

I think he could have used a bit of initiative and called me before boarding up the cable, that doesn't seem very sensible. What do you think Dillb?

2 things, firstly don't expect a builder to have any initiative.

Secondly if you haven't asked to be there how would he know you want to be there?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

In a situation like this I always mark the walls with the position of the joists, That way you know where they are and roughly where your cables will be.
That said, the builder has no knowledge of how you selected your cables so it is easy to baffle him with calcs. Most of them are clueless when it comes to electricity mate

Allways do a plan to show you joist positions and cable positions.

Sounds like your gonna learn the hard way that most builders are tools.

I definitely would have done, but the builder and client made it very clear that the builder was going to drill holes and pull cable through, thats what they wanted. They also wanted him to do the second fix, but i said I wont sign it off unless I do the second fix!

I'm not enjoying this particular job! :-(

 

[trev]

So if it's down to the clown and there's lots of length on the cables what the hell is his problem?
1.5 metres is plenty of slack

 

[Wiresandthings]

As most of the comments above, you can never trust a builder to do anything, even if you explain it 10 times they will c*** it up!!

Learn the hard way on this one, but make a plan of joists and positions of cables in future. If possible cut holes before skim coat and its happy days! Plasterers hate it mind!!

Ive learnt the hard way recently when i lost my plan for a kitchen with about 15 downlights!!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

2 things, firstly don't expect a builder to have any initiative.

Thats a fair point Dillb.

Secondly if you haven't asked to be there how would he know you want to be there?

He's changed the rules, he's made the decision NOT to pull the cable through which was agreed so I need to be informed of that at that time as it impacts on the remainder of my job. I cant tell that he's going to change the rules.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

So if it's down to the clown and there's lots of length on the cables what the hell is his problem?
1.5 metres is plenty of slack

Thats what I just cant get my head around (smiley things arn't working ... damn!)

As most of the comments above, you can never trust a builder to do anything, even if you explain it 10 times they will c*** it up!!

Learn the hard way on this one, but make a plan of joists and positions of cables in future. If possible cut holes before skim coat and its happy days! Plasterers hate it mind!!

Ive learnt the hard way recently when i lost my plan for a kitchen with about 15 downlights!!

Yep.. Like Dillb said... I should not have expected initiative. I've only worked with 2 other builders and they were both great! Kind of thought thats the norm!!

 

[Octopus]

Has the ceiling been plastered?

EDit: Positioning rule of thumb -

700-800mm from walls

and

no more than 1200mm apart

 

[shanky887614]

As most of the comments above, you can never trust a builder to do anything, even if you explain it 10 times they will c*** it up!!

Learn the hard way on this one, but make a plan of joists and positions of cables in future. If possible cut holes before skim coat and its happy days! Plasterers hate it mind!!

Ive learnt the hard way recently when i lost my plan for a kitchen with about 15 downlights!!

depends on the builder, ive worked with one before where he is better than a lot of house bashers I have met, doesnt have a clue about regs but will call you to get you down before boarding etc if needs must.

nothing wrong with one lending a hand if it is something foolproof like stripping cables ready for connecting etc

 

[Marvo]

Just tell him you'll make the holes and find the cable at your normal hourly rate. It wasn't part of your original scope of works so it's an extra.

Just for future it's imperative the everything that's agreed or requested by the client, no matter how small and inconsequential it may seem at the time, is in writing. If necessary email him that evening stating every decision he's made during your meeting with a request for clarification within 24 hrs if there's something he disagrees with. Unfortunately verbal instructions and agreements don't cut the mustard, if there's ever any comeback or disagreements later on.

 

[uksparks]

If someone says fit down lights, unless I do the job from start to finish and drill holes, I walk away, none of this, you will do this and they will do that bull. I'd tell them to sling their hook.

 

[uksparks]

Has the ceiling been plastered?

EDit: Positioning rule of thumb -

700-800mm from walls

and

no more than 1200mm apart

Depends on the size of the room does it not...

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Has the ceiling been plastered?

EDit: Positioning rule of thumb -

700-800mm from walls

and

no more than 1200mm apart

I dont know if ceiling has been plastered. I went in 700mm from wall.

The client is really quite difficult Murdoch. I made it clear it was £360 labour and what ever materials cost, they now want the job at £360 inc materials as they say I did not mention this. The couple are both really stressed with each other, their dogs just been put down as it bit the neighbour (huge continuously barking alsation) and the boss (the lady) is just chaotic!!

 

[Octopus]

Depends on the size of the room does it not...

Er no...unless you have a taller room them the spaces can be bigger