Need some advice please

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

Hello,

I'm retired from the game but decided to drop in and ask the good folks here a few questions regarding issues a family member is having. Hope someone can help.

My wife's cousin has just signed a lease for a property.
They haven't occupied the property as it needs cosmetic work doing.

The decorator comes and plugs in his wallpaper stripper and the power trips, and keeps tripping on all the sockets he tries.
He thinks the paper stripper is faulty so buys a new one, same thing happens and happens again with his kettle and other equipment.

The electrical certificate shows test results as 'passed' with a few Zs and R1+R2 tests but shows the installation is 'unsatisfactory' One snag with that, there is nothing on the cert that explains why the installation is unsatisfactory.

I take a nosey at the sockets and there are old red and black cables mixed with new colours. At first glance it looks like a ring main. Then I remove another few sockets and there are old coloured single 2.5mm cables one the one supposed ring main.

Without testing this suggests there are two radials in one RCBO with new coloured cables added on with JB's. Both 2.5 cables at the consumer unit are red and black. The lighting circuit has three old coloured 1mm cables in one 6A RCBO. The consumer is new-ish but has been opened up that many times the fixing screws for the board face have been turned to mince meat leaving it almost impossible to gain access (took a while to remove)
This along with the new 10mm earth bond to the incoming polythene water mains pipe made me think the local handyman had been in.

It needs a rewire but the landlord insists the Electrician who issued the 'unsatisfactory' certificate give a quote along with other Electricians they've asked to quote for the job.
Is this guy incompetent or just plain lazy when it comes to filling out certificates, and would you ask him to quote for a job?

Thanks.

 

[Midwest]

There could well be an earth-neutral fault sat waiting, so that when an appliance is plugged in, causes the RCD to trip (if that is what's tripping?). If you have a combination of colours, perhaps the RFC has been altered and not tested for IR faults? Although that should have been done on the EICR, I would of thought.

It's quite usual to bond the internal metal pipe work, even if the incoming service is plastic, easier to comply that proving beyond doubt that the metal pipework is not or will be in the future extraneous.

I'm wondering why it needs a rewire, if the installation just needs some attention, or do you think it's been subjected to DIY attacks?

 

[Octopus]

You should ask, in writing, what gives the installation an "unsatisfactory" outcome .............

Edit : if the landlord commissioned the report - its up to him.

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

There could well be an earth-neutral fault sat waiting, so that when an appliance is plugged in, causes the RCD to trip (if that is what's tripping?). If you have a combination of colours, perhaps the RFC has been altered and not tested for IR faults? Although that should have been done on the EICR, I would of thought.

It's quite usual to bond the internal metal pipe work, even if the incoming service is plastic, easier to comply that proving beyond doubt that the metal pipework is not or will be in the future extraneous.

I'm wondering why it needs a rewire, if the installation just needs some attention, or do you think it's been subjected to DIY attacks?

I should have mentioned the property is commercial (Old house)
that still has the old wiring .

It's been attacked by the DIY brigade alright.
The only certificate for the instillation was the partially explained one we saw yesterday. It said it passed the testing but the installation was unsatisfactory, and no explanation as to why.

The building was fine as small offices that is was prior to my wife's cousin taking over. Now that they need a mountain of sockets + wiring for a water heater, electric hand washer, air curtains etc, etc, the old wiring is surplus. Old radial circuits just won't do it for a modern commercial shop.

The building doesn't have central heating.
There is only plastic pipe from the main water to the sink. (Main incoming water supply is underneath the sink) with a brass stopcock and and inch of 15mm copper pipe in between. Would you put a 10mm bond to the taps and sink because they are the only metal parts in the kitchen?
I should also mention the 10mm bond cable was run without any real protection......straight across the step of a wooden door frame and showed signs it was being kicked.

I'm still unsure about the guy who issued the partially explained certificate. The landlord knows him and I'm guessing he gave him some paperwork so he could rent it out in a hurry.
Oddly enough the landlords solicitor missed the word 'unsatisfactory' on the certificate :/

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

You should ask, in writing, what gives the installation an "unsatisfactory" outcome .............

Edit : if the landlord commissioned the report - its up to him.

I was wondering that too. Nothing but a few test results that said 'passed' but then it said 'unsatisfactory' when it came for approval of the installation.

Landlord just wants the rent money the look of it.

 

[telectrix]

if you want an independent opinion, I'm in Cheshire.

 

[Octopus]

The only certificate for the installation was the partially explained one we saw yesterday. It said it passed the testing but the installation was unsatisfactory, and no explanation as to why./

We can only guess ..... "passed" testing means absolutely nothing.

An EICR is much more than simply some testing.

Unless the you have access to the EICR, we are merely speculating.

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

if you want an independent opinion, I'm in Cheshire.

Anywhere near Chester?

PM me your contact details and we'll call you for a rewire quote.

Thanks

 

[westward10]

if you want an independent opinion, I'm in Cheshire.

You might want to consider taking up this offer.

 

[elsparko]

I should have mentioned the property is commercial (Old house)
that still has the old wiring .

It's been attacked by the DIY brigade alright.
The only certificate for the instillation was the partially explained one we saw yesterday. It said it passed the testing but the installation was unsatisfactory, and no explanation as to why.

The building was fine as small offices that is was prior to my wife's cousin taking over. Now that they need a mountain of sockets + wiring for a water heater, electric hand washer, air curtains etc, etc, the old wiring is surplus. Old radial circuits just won't do it for a modern commercial shop.

The building doesn't have central heating.
There is only plastic pipe from the main water to the sink. (Main incoming water supply is underneath the sink) with a brass stopcock and and inch of 15mm copper pipe in between. Would you put a 10mm bond to the taps and sink because they are the only metal parts in the kitchen?
I should also mention the 10mm bond cable was run without any real protection......straight across the step of a wooden door frame and showed signs it was being kicked.

I'm still unsure about the guy who issued the partially explained certificate. The landlord knows him and I'm guessing he gave him some paperwork so he could rent it out in a hurry.
Oddly enough the landlords solicitor missed the word 'unsatisfactory' on the certificate :/

an eicr should come with at least 6 pages of results including remedial work that needs done, whoever carried out the inspection should refund you.

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

Unless the you have access to the EICR, we are merely speculating.

I've seen the report in full. And being a retired NICEIC contractor,
that EICR report is good for nothing but the bin.

 

[elsparko]

I've seen the report in full. And being a retired NICEIC contractor,
that EICR report is good for nothing but the bin.

sounds like its been a case of a walk round making sure everything turns on and no testing was actually done, actual results dont appear to have been taken, the whole point of an eicr is to check these things that have been missed out , and no list of work that needs carried out to take it up to current standards? id be on the phone for my money back if i was OP

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

an eicr should come with at least 6 pages of results including remedial work that needs done, whoever carried out the inspection should refund you.

The landlord ordered the cert.
It's not the first time I've seen old substandard, and sometimes dangerous installations passed because some bright spark thinks a Zs test makes everything alright

 

[elsparko]

The landlord ordered the cert.
It's not the first time I've seen old substandard, and sometimes dangerous installations passed because some bright spark thinks a Zs test makes everything alright

id be angry if i paid to recieve something and got nothing useful in return, was this job completed on the friday by any chance?

 

[Octopus]

I've seen the report in full. And being a retired NICEIC contractor,
that EICR report is good for nothing but the bin.

If you have seen all 7+ pages then you should have seen the C1's ad C2's? What were they?

 

[Octopus]

id be angry if i paid to recieve something and got nothing useful in return, was this job completed on the friday by any chance?

The OP didn't order the report, the landlord did

 

[elsparko]

The OP didn't order the report, the landlord did

the electrician should have advised him that this wasnt of any use for an eicr, i wouldnt want them back for a rewire if they are cutting corners on an eicr.

 

[NotGettingAnyZsFaction]

sounds like its been a case of a walk round making sure everything turns on and no testing was actually done, actual results dont appear to have been taken, the whole point of an eicr is to check these things that have been missed out , and no list of work that needs carried out to take it up to current standards? id be on the phone for my money back if i was OP

Seems that way, but any Electrician who knows his stuff would have seen the cracked sockets, old broken switches, the CU not labelled correctly, pattress boxes dislodged from the wall etc, etc, etc and put it in his report. Not this guy though.

 

[Octopus]

the electrician should have advised him that this wasnt of any use for an eicr, i wouldnt want them back for a rewire if they are cutting corners on an eicr.

You lost me....

 

[Octopus]

Maybe its just a visual inspection?