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Discuss Negotiations going as expected.... in the Politics & The Economy area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Well, it seems our "friends" in the EU are conducting the "negotiations" in the manner I thought they would. Get your wallet out UK or we are not even remotely interested in talking about anything, rattle right out of the pram because we have had the audacity to leave their useless club. So, should we carry on, or just turn round, close the briefcases, whistle for a taxi to the airport and tell them to stick it. Call their bluff, basically?
     
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  2. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

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    Link?
     
  3. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    Might upset Angela if we did that, and you know what happened the last time someone upset them.
     
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  4. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Sensible answers only please, on a postcard if necessary.
     
  5. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

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    The claim that we owe them 100 billion euros, yet have seem to have forgotten that a bill needs details and break downs ..................

    I think the UK should walk away until they come clean with exactly how much, how they have come to the number, how much of the assets the UK "own" which need to be deducted

    and then the legal basis on which it should be paid ..............

    I'm happy for the UK to save on the air fares and hotel rooms until this is provided...
     
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  6. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

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    Another Northern Daily Mail Mail reader........
     
  7. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    I really don't know what you mean. I watched that french guy, can't remember his name, on TV at lunchtime, trotting out the speech he had obviously written the day after we decided to leave. I don't read the Daily mail, or any other red-top for that matter. Not sure what the Daily Mail Mail is though, is it a new London issue? I always thought the Mail was a "southern" paper though, as suggested in those famous lines "Oh, and on your way home Bonnie lad, get yersel a copy of the Daily Mail" (When the boat comes in, circa 197X??)
    Truth of the matter is that the EU have no intention of conducting any rational negotiations, they just want to try and punish us for daring to leave the sinking ship. It just makes me even more convinced that they are a hopeless case.
     
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  8. Des 56
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    Leaving the EU was a decision made by many voters who believed the nonsense spouted about how wonderful life would be, if only we bucked the world trend for co operation and integration and walked a lone path
    It is quietly being realised and feared that all will not be well in the UK household after all
    The fee for leaving is a debt for numerous shared projects that we have and are benefiting from,its only the projected level that is disputed,the end figure will be finalised and will be paid irrelevant of the final figure,to not do so would destroy any reputation,trust or trade that we will now desperately need having made the silliest decision a nation (maybe soon to become a number of nations)could have made

    We have gambled the future of all young people (who did not deserve this punishment voted for on their behalf)and inflicted on them by older people with little vision of life without the Eu

    The real life outside the EU is slowly dawning on many who voted for crazy, its reality is a long way from the utopia of those who campaigned to leave promised them
    It will be something very very different from that vision of paradise,more like a self imposed hell for future generations
     
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  9. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Cobblers.
     
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  10. Des 56
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    And that reply probably took the same time as most out voters gave to the way to vote

    My thoughts have been posted and an opposite view given,let time be the judge of who is right
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  11. static zap
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    static zap Regular EF Member

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    Out is a gamble , but staying in and having your powers of control watered down was a certain !
     
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  12. Murdoch
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    Thing is, neither side made a very good job of making their case.......
     
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  13. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    No, it was born out of the tiresome apathetic attitudes of people like you who have no vision or spirit to believe that this nation, who came to the rescue of the very people who now want to deride us, have. The leaders of the EU now show themselves to be exactly what they are, more concerned with childish bureaucracy and punitive measures rather than trying to discuss a proper solution to a situation that will have a negative effect on them possibly more than us. Anyone would think that life in the EU is a paradise rather than the low growth rule bound existence in which our Country is slowly but surely losing it's entire identity along with being unable to trade freely with the emerging nations of the world.
     
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  14. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    i voted NO in 1972 (or thereabouts) and voted NO again last year.if we wanted the frogs or the krauts to rule Britain we could have let napoleon or hitler win. now it's angela meerkat and some french tw4t, (can't remember the name) trying it on again, but more subtle. sod 'em. if this country can't make a go of it without them bureaucratic corrupt thieving EU mob, then at least we go down with our heads held high. RULE BRITANNIA.
     
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  15. PEG
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    PEG Trusted Advisor

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    I'm in the mood to play devil's advocate,and just been to watch Dunkirk,with son No.1,so....

    The EU is no different,than many other institution/club/organisation/ideal,and as with other set-ups,government,Police,BBC,FIFA,etc,the details of running and membership,never fail to cause despair.

    The waste,fraud and cost,cannot be hidden,neither can individual pieces of worth and benefit.

    It is the acceptance of one,and the value of the other,which separate fans from detractors.

    It is a matter of record,that we signed up,in international statute,to certain financial commitments. Whether you think that was wrong now,or then...we signed :)

    ....But,the very same legal framework,set rules for membership,which carry the exact weight,which then were bypassed,and ignored,with additional eye-watering,unapproachable borrowing,piled on top....for all members to share :(

    So,in,out,half in or out...it is only certain,that there would be winners and losers,in any event - always. I may add,that i am in favour of absolutely anything,which makes any Frenchman, cross :p
     
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  16. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    . I may add,that i am in favour of absolutely anything,which makes any Frenchman, cross :p

    bravo.
     
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  17. andyb
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    andyb Electrician's Arms

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    I think you should look up the term 'devil's advocate'
     
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  18. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

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    The EU will try to punish us, its the same as the vindictive husband who's wife of 25 years has had enough and has decided to leave him and now he will try to screw her over and control her.

    What most of the people in the UK are sick off is being "controlled" by Europe (France and Germany) immigration is far too high, its fine for people that want to work but we are getting the dregs of the world coming here as all they see is "free money" and asylum should be claimed in the first free/safe country you arrive in.

    To me its spitefulness and if we are going to leave then just leave and tell them to do one, most people I believe who voted out thought they'd never win and it would have fired a warning shot across the bows of the EU ship which is basically a bunch of freeloaders lining their own pockets as fast as then can with their all self interests a number one priority. The problem is the Leave Campaign won, what the EU should have said is "bugger, we need to change" and to implement a relaxation of the rules and to give us back the freedoms that have been taken away bit by bit, deportations should be easier and the removal of the undesirables, I have Abu Hamza's wife living around the corner from me in a nice 4 bedroom council house thats worth about £1.2M and the residents aren't happy about it but they can't touch her, anyways turning in to a bit of a rant.

    London opportunity to work is a lot better then the rest of the country and I can imagine its a lot worse Northwards of Watford jobs wise and trying to find somewhere to live but maybe the members on here that are in those areas can comment on that aspect.
     
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  19. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

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    You need this book then,

    Screen Shot 2017-09-01 at 07.53.26.jpg
     
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  20. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

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    Don't care which way any one voted, we're leaving. But those that voted out, believe this process is going to be anything other than costly or problematic, is being a bit naive.

    We've been in this 'club' for a long time, with its tentacles embedded in our constitution, legislation and business. So that's going to take some organising, and work obtaining new business.

    Somewhat like the advice regular given to those on here asking if they should go self employed. The answer is mostly always yes, but with a few caveats.

    There's always rattling of swords at these events, which eventually will get sorted, it has to, 'cos that's what we decided to do.
     
  21. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Exactly right SWD, my thoughts entirely. My hope is that when things get to a stalemate and the British negotiators give them the ultimatum that they must, on behalf of the British taxpayers, that the real leaders in the EU will start to get messages to Junkers and Co that they need to stop the playground bully act and start talking sense. I don't think the bosses at BMW and Audi, for example, will just stand back and let the likes of these EU leaders cut off their income stream from us. However, if needs be, it will have to happen. As an example there are plenty of luxury car makes outside of the EU that we could buy from.
    Brilliant point regarding France and Germany, no other country seems to be involved as far as I can see, some 27 nations.......oh until they start moaning about not getting as many handouts when we have left.
     
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  22. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    what we need at this moment in time is another Churchill or Thatcher. a PM with the balls to stand up to these eurine bullies and give it to them. stood up to hitler and galtieri, so this load of cretins should be no problem for a UK government that has the guts to fight the barstewards.
     
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  23. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    I have no time for Maggie but at least she would have had the balls to tell these bully boys where to go. They are starting to show their true colours now, they obviously haven't got the message that we are sick of getting our hands in our pockets to bail their "club" members out.
     
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  24. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Oh and by the way I think we ought to tell them where they can shove their weedy 500W vacuum cleaners, just to get the ball rolling a bit faster. What a complete joke that is, saving emissions! just shows what a bunch of pillocks they are.
     
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  25. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

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    All that will happen is that your cleaner will take twice as long to hoover thats using the same amount of energy and causing the same amount of emissions but you'll have to pay her for an extra 30 mins of her time.
     
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  26. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    agree. a 500watt vac can maybe do the job, but it will be running twice as long as a 1000watt. so where's the saving.? same as a 3kw kettle will boil in half the time of a 1500watt. basic physics. energy in = energy out ( less any losses, of course). but then these are pencil necks. can't see wood when a tree is in the way.
     
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  27. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    In fact, albeit it arguably trivial, this is a perfect example of why we should divorce ourselves from these idiots. I wonder how much this masterpiece of meaningless rubbish EU directive has cost? People who voted remain must be very embarrassed by this astonishing example of EU ****ery, I would be.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  28. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

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    Yet another prime example of believing headline rubbish and not the facts

    Try these quotes from Which


    While you’re unlikely to see a noticeable reduction in your energy bills at home, the EU estimates that the amount of energy saved as a result of the label will be 20TWh annually, that’s equivalent to the residential electricity consumption of Belgium

    While it is too early to say what the impact of new regulations will be, we have tested vacuum cleaners with 900W motors that do a better job of dust-busting than vacuum cleaners with motors two or three times the size. What’s more, we’ve reported on vacuum cleaners in the past that are so noisy, you’d be forgiven for thinking that you were using a lawnmower to clean your living room. So the maximum noise restriction could be good news for your ears.


    Making efforts to contain global warming does not seem to be as important as the headline makers will have you believing

    Oh and whilst I got myself sucked in again to a thread after I intended staying well away from
    I was almost chewing the screen when it was posted how that dead politician with the annoying voice would have sorted them out

    She did enough damage destroying the communities in Wales and elsewhere, the evil deeds she resided over is still impacting to this day
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  29. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Like I said earlier, Cobblers. See Tel's post regarding the physics, and more importantly the reality.
     
  30. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

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    Yes,I can see that truth does indeed blind those who dont want it shown
    Oh and dittro with your favourite retort, cobblers to your post
     
  31. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Well you work it out then:
    Mrs Smith runs her EU spec 500W vacuum for 20 mins, trying to clean up the fluff from the stairs carpet. It ain't very good being as its only 500W.
    Mrs Nextdoor does the same thing with her really good vacuum for 5 mins cos its 2000W and does a better job anyway.
    Energy saving????
    Like I said, cobblers. Never mind the low growth in the EU, the massive problems caused by uncontrolled immigration, and the fact that 75% of EU countries are on their arse, lets just worry about the size of vacuum cleaner motors.
    Byeeeeeeeee..........
    Mind you, perhaps them dirty French sods like having mucky stair carpets.
     
  32. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

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    Not too sure what this thread is all about?
    The EU are not going to treat us any different to any other country that is not in the EU. Why should they?
    Don't quite understand this idea that if the EU doesn't give us what we want, then they are being childish or vindictive?
    As for Maggie.
    She would most likely have just ignored the referendum result.
     
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  33. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    i seem to remember it was that comb over scarecrow scargill destroyed the mining communities in his misguided attempt to bring down the government of the day. let's face facts. when it costs more to extract coal from the ground than you can sell it for, it's a non-viable business . no matter who is in charge of the country.
     
  34. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Because w
    Because we ARE (currently) in the EU, and as SWD has pointed out, they should, possibly, be wondering why a major contributor has seen fit to leave. They need to look inwardly as to why this state of affairs has happened. In a facetious way, and cos I have had a few glasses of a very nice red, I might suggest it might be, amongst other things, to do with the complete stupidity of today's new legislation.
    We are not asking for something we want, we are asking them to be reasonable, but, being as they are a bunch of vindictive idiots, that is obviously not on the agenda.
    They will see sense when the real masters become involved.
     
  35. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    send over a couple of squadrons of Lancasters. it worked before.
     
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  36. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    That's another debate Tel. Fact are:
    1. It couldn't be sold at market rates because at the time we were competing against other countries that had massive subsidies injected into their own mining industry, which the government of the time was not prepared to do
    2. It has since been proved by the freedom of information act that the Tory government at that time (fronted by Mrs T) was determined, at any cost, to defeat both Scargill and the Trades Unions because they had given that heap of turds Heath a hiding previously.
    Come to think of it, it was that tawt that got us into this mess in the first place, just to try and make himself look good.
    If you want to witness the effects of Mrs T's actions, I could show you huge swathes of the country round here that have never, and will never, be the same again.
     
  37. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    to be honest. i think the blame for the decline in coal mining has to be shared between both the government of the time and the unions. neither would back down. then again, we could go back to the cotton mills of the 19th century and into the 20th. they could not compete, and so gradually they all closed. further back in time, sailing ships were made obsolete by the invention of steam power. nowadays, car assembly is mostly done by robots, so that will result in less manpower. end of the day it's called progress.
     
  38. andyb
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    andyb Electrician's Arms

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    So a 30w tungston lamp is equal in output to a 30w led lamp?
    Thanks for clearing that up for me.
    I feel silly now, beleving all that EU propaganda.
     
  39. telectrix
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    no. a 30watt tungsten lamp has a 30watt input. probably approx. 10 watts light output and 20watts heat output.

    a 30watt LED lamp has the same input, but more like 25watts light output and 5watts heat.

    above figures are only a guesstimate based on how long it took to burn my fingers in each case and not based on actual scientific fact.

    also, no animals were killed or hurt during ther experiment of burning my fingers, and no children under the age of 15 were allowed to be present.
     
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  40. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    What's it got to do with lamps? A 500W vacuum cleaner uses 25% less energy than a 2000w one, but if you run it for 4 times as long, because it has as much suck as a 10 dollar tart, it consumes the same amount of energy. That's what is so stupid about the EU argument, legislation, and more importantly the 100,000's euros it no doubt cost the dimwatts to waste OUR money on this farcical nonsense.
    The EU is run by a bunch of clowns, and this exemplifies it.
     
  41. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

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    Des 56, I have to admit I missed the last bit of your post. I agree entirely that the evil witch destroyed whole swathes of society, and had no regard for it in general. There are still vast sections of my local community suffering from her social injustices. We are now reaping the pain and expense of her privatisation, or should I say her robbing of state owned companies in order to sell them off to a few of her mates. I just meant we need someone with some balls to stand up the the intransigent jokers who are conduction the negotiations on behalf of the EU.
     
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  42. Murdoch
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    Policies continued by Tony Blair ........
     
  43. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

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    I apologise before hand for derailing the thread but I can't let Tels post go unanswered

    Yes it was no longer economical to extract coal from deep coal mines when it was competing with imported open cast Australian mines and often subsidised coal from deep mines in Germany and Poland

    Yes there was a political agenda from Scargil and an equal determination by that woman to get one over on the miners for previous advantages they gained which were justified when they occurred

    If big job losses were to occur in a town reliant on say a huge car manufacturer,it is always right and proper that the government try and ease the effects of closure by trying to stimulate other industries to provide alternatives,provide training opportunities and generally ease the burden on the town

    The mines closing would be hard to bear in normal circumstances when the welfare of communities would be considered
    What she did was vindictive,callous and completely and utterly com passionless.
    Her revenge and the price paid was not just the closed mines,it was the communities and the children of the communities that bore the terrible price she inflicted
    A whole generation of the young lived in poverty and despair

    She imported a vicious american to quickly and mercilessly close as many and in as short a time possible of the mines,with no care what happened to the communities they served

    Unlike large towns and cities,the mines had a almost monopoly of work available in these areas,without them there was nothing,there was no alternative programmes to stimulate any other work or industries or even training to take their place
    For many years a whole generation was thrown in the gutter,they grew older with little care to the life and culture that went before,all they had was destitution,not surprisingly these communities changed for the worse and are now not recognisable to what they should have become

    She may be revered by those in other parts who gained from her evil but here she is a witch who cast an evil spell on those who did not deserve that treatment,she took her revenge on a whole generation of the children of many communities
    May she lay peacefully in her grave and hope that the likes of her never again get in a position of power over innocent people
     
  44. Murdoch
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    The UK only has 1 air worthy Lancaster and that's currently grounded ....
     
  45. PEG
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    PEG Trusted Advisor

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    Ah Ha! I'm back in the thread...
    I've seen it several times,and i organised a "Taxi at T/O speed",for me dad,on our other Lancaster,The Lady Jane,which has four engines ready to fit,and a good hope of flying again :)

    The family is off to Scampton,next week,where i fully hope,not to be listening to folk whining-lyrical,concerning the omnipotent evil nature of deceased politicians,who would have been formidable indeed,had they possessed such perceived,exponentially increasing power...
     
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