Posting a message to the forum will remove the above advertisement
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. angel While you're here, would you mind checking out our Electrician's Insurance section to see if we could save you a few quid? - Specifically our Van Insurance Deals and Public Liability Insurance Deals. Thanks for supporting the forum! angel

    5% Discount from Electrical2Go.co.uk for ALL members! - Click Here

Discuss Neutrals! in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Please make sure you checkout our forum sponsors, many do discounts for members and, they keep the forum free to use.
  1. hoppy
    Offline

    hoppy Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Liverpool
    Hi

    can someone please advise me as the best and easiest way to see if a house has borrowed neutrals, I have trawled previous posts but can't really find any clear answers.

    All help is appreciated.

    I have a couple of ideas but just want to see if I am thinking correctly.

    My current college tutor says you can't test for a borrowed neutral.

    Thanks

    Craig
     
  2. needasparks
    Offline

    needasparks Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    Well Craig, I'm afraid your college tutor needs to go back to college, does he/she not know you can IR between circuits also.
    Even taking a switch off tells you in most cases.
     
  3. Des 56
    Offline

    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Dont believe everything you hear in college,the tutors have their off days as well and are known to be wrong sometimes[​IMG]
     
  4. hoppy
    Offline

    hoppy Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Liverpool
    needasparks, when you say IR test between the 2 circuits do you mean testing live and neutral from say down lights joined together and test to live and neutral of up lights joined together, if you get a dead short then this indicated a borrowed neutral,

    sorry if sound dumb just trying to get my head around this.

    Thanks

    Craig
     
  5. needasparks
    Offline

    needasparks Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    It would not matter really, but if you take two separate circuits and IR between them they should have no conection.
    Most common is up and down lighting, if you suspect a borrowed neutral just take a switch off in the hall and landing and you will see a cross link between switches or you could IR between lives and neutrals making sure you change switch position to see if lamp in line. This can also be found on wall lights where the live is taken from the lighting switch and neutral hopped of a socket. Again if you see wall lights in a property when testing it is worth testing between lighting and socket circuits. Its only a quick flash with the meter but can save a lot of agro fault finding later and narrows the check down. Thats why a full visual of a property is worth doing before any testing is made and gives you a heads up while your shoehorned under the stairs scraching your head.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Geordie Spark
    Offline

    Geordie Spark Trusted Advisor

    Those who can, DO.
    Those who can't, TEACH !!!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. adben
    Offline

    adben New EF Member

    hi,

    I have no much experience here in Uk so correct me if I'm wrong. You could test if there are borrowed circuit neutrals wires using continuity test. From the panel, disconnect all circuit wires and test between circuit neautral lines. Infinity reading means no common neutrals between the circuit. make two test to make sure...first test is all light switch in off position and the second test in on position. The reason behind is some electricians accidentally connect the neutral to the light switch.
     
  8. needasparks
    Offline

    needasparks Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    You are correct in theory but you would only get a high resistive reading at best and may not pick up anything if cfl's or more resistive type lighting were in circuit. For the purposes of a Test we have to be 100% that circuits are separated entirely. A IR test will also be looking for fault between circuits also as we offen come across damaged cables. It is very important to understand your what you are testing and exactly what reading you are expecting to get.
    Yes you can cross the road with one eye closed but would you ?
     
  9. Bogeybaiter
    Offline

    Bogeybaiter Guest

    Or there is the good ol rough as f**k method, turn 1 circuit on at a time and go splashing on the neutral bar :D
     
  10. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    most common is 2 way landing light. to test, switch off MCB for upstairs lights. then test in landing ceiling rose . if you read volts, then that L is from the downstairs circuit.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. oldtimer
    Offline

    oldtimer Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I mentioned that you do not see much of this in Scotland and in my 36 years I never seen it but the last 6 months I have seen 3. One was last week where I dont think it was meant to be a shared neutral me thinks that because they were wiring 2 light circuits ijn a 2 bed flat they have looped a neutral to the wrong light and when they powered it up no probs. Until muggins comes along anf fits a duel RCD board and yep that soon tells you you have a shared neutral.
     
  12. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    i think shared neutral is a better term than borrowed neutral. borrowed seems to imply that it's been taken away from 1 circuit to be returned at a later date, bit like a library book.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. SparkyDips
    Offline

    SparkyDips Regular EF Member

    this is how i found it at a customers place.

    lol and the penalty for not returning would be................. lol
     
  14. needasparks
    Offline

    needasparks Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Essex
    Is that because they tend not to borrow and just steal a neutral as their tight :)
     
  15. Farmelectrics
    Offline

    Farmelectrics Farmelectrics Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Wirral
    Business Name:
    Farm electrics
    another quick way is to check switch in hall or landing should be a 3 core between switches if its 2 core youve got borrowed nuetrals
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...
Similar Threads - Neutrals Forum Date
Neutrals overheating Electrical Forum Aug 5, 2018
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Electricians Directory Post a Domestic Job Post a Commercial Job