new reqs

[Plonker 3]

and if you get it wrong what would a judge use to as their guidline. BS7671. So effectively stick to BS7671 and you cannot be wrong.

A judge would use nothing as a guideline until something is presented by either the prosecution or defence.

 

[Guest125]

A judge would use nothing as a guideline until something is presented by either the prosecution or defence.

This is ridiculous now.

 

[Plonker 3]

Biggest disclaimer of the day goes too BS7671

 

[Guest125]

Agreed but that protects them not us. It stops someone saying "but that is what it said to do". It is all balls but it is still law. Through the back door granted but still law.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Give me an alternative?

Certainly.
BS7671 requires that any addition or alteration before being put into use, should be inspected and tested, and appropriate certification issued.
Failure to conduct inspection, testing and issuing the appropriate certification would not necessarily impair the safety of the installation, however the work would not comply with BS7671.

 

[davesparks]

and if you get it wrong what would a judge use to as their guidline. BS7671. So effectively stick to BS7671 and you cannot be wrong.

The electricity at work regulations, along with bs7671 and all other relevant BS documents and expert advisors/witnesses.

There are many many installations and areas of the industry where all sorts of other rules take precedence over bs7671.

Bs7671 is not the be all and end all of electrical installations and safety, it is but one standard we have to consider when working.

Personally I have to deal with bs7909 in one of the sectors of the industry I work in.

 

[Farmelectrics]

What is bs 7909 what line of work

 

[spark 68]

This is ridiculous now.

You have a lot to learn young Jedi :beatnik2:, listen to your uncle Spin, and uncle Dilib, lol, they are correct, if you actually listened to what they are saying, and not what you "think" they are saying, then you might just learn something.

 

[davesparks]

What is bs 7909 what line of work

Bs7909-2011 The Code of Practice for the creation and operation of Temporary Electrical Systems for Entertainment and Related Purposes.

That line of work is temporary supply and distribution for festivals/outdoor events/theatre etc etc

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The term 'deviation' is not something used by BS7671.
A departure is something that doesn't comply with the requirements of BS7671 is, but which the designer must attest provides the same degree of safety as would be achieved by compliance with BS7671.
A non-compliance or defect is something that would either require rectification before an EIC or MIEWC is issued, or would require (if dangerous or potentially dangerous) being commented upon in an EICR.

 

[Guest125]

You have a lot to learn young Jedi :beatnik2:, listen to your uncle Spin, and uncle Dilib, lol, they are correct, if you actually listened to what they are saying, and not what you "think" they are saying, then you might just learn something.

I am all for learning. That is how I got to where I am. But not by listening to day 1 of 'commmon myths about the electrical game'

 

[Anthony S]

I am all for learning. That is how I got to where I am. But not by listening to day 1 of 'commmon myths about the electrical game'

What myths are they then ?

 

[PEG]

and if you get it wrong what would a judge use to as their guidline. BS7671. So effectively stick to BS7671 and you cannot be wrong.

...Thank goodness for that...i can go back to a few jobs,and pull them earth rods out a couple of meters...:icon12:

 

[ipf]

I am all for learning. That is how I got to where I am. But not by listening to day 1 of 'commmon myths about the electrical game'

Like calling lamps and tubes, bulbs :bulb2:

 

[spark 68]

The only "myths" so far is that BS7671 is the be all and end all, you might consider reading the very beginning of the current regs to gain a better understanding.

if you are only doing domestic small jobs then of course it makes sense to work to current regs, Spin already gave you an example of a large project that spans multiple versions of BS7671, in fact BS7671 itself actually states any design started after new regs (the January date) comes into force must be to the new current regs, the keywords "designed after".

Also BS7671 states by following the standards as laid down in BS7671 then conformity to the relevant parts of the EAWR legislation is "likely" to be achieved, (only likely?) lol.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Implementation Dates:
1st January 2015 - The Third amendment to BS 7671:2008, The IET Wiring Regulations, became effective on this date. Following this, contractors have a six month transition period to get up to speed with the changes and can design, install and certify to either the new or previous standard.
1st July 2015 – From this date it is a requirement that all electrical installations designed and periodically inspected comply with the updated regulations. Contractors will be expected to hold a copy of BS 7671:2008, incorporating Amendment 3, for any assessment visit taking place after this date.
1st January 2016 – Regulation 421.1.201 (PROTECTION AGAINST FIRE CAUSED BY ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT) comes into full effect.

Take care when reading and interpreting formal documents ... 1st Jan - 30th Jun Contractors 'can design, install and certify to either the new OR previous standard'; from 1st Jul 'it is a requirement that all electrical installations designed and periodically inspected comply with the updated regulations.' It is interesting to note that installation is excluded from the second list.


For those with greater insight, if something that is periodically inspected must comply with the updated regulations, does this mean retrospective application or is there likely to be an equivalent to the 'Note by the Health and Safety Executive' which is on P12 of Amendment No: 1? This note states that 'Installations which conform to the standards laid down in BS 7671:2008 are regarded by HSE as likely to achieve conformity with the relevant parts of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989.' It goes on to describe how existing installations designed and installed to earlier editions will not fail to conform to the relevant parts of the EaWR 1989.

 

[Guest125]

What myths are they then ?

I am sorry mate but I just cannot do it!!

 

[GB.Kayak]

The only "myths" so far is that BS7671 is the be all and end all, you might consider reading the very beginning of the current regs to gain a better understanding.

if you are only doing domestic small jobs then of course it makes sense to work to current regs, Spin already gave you an example of a large project that spans multiple versions of BS7671, in fact BS7671 itself actually states any design started after new regs (the January date) comes into force must be to the new current regs, the keywords "designed after".

Also BS7671 states by following the standards as laid down in BS7671 then conformity to the relevant parts of the EAWR legislation is "likely" to be achieved, (only likely?) lol.

spark 68 ... you got there before me! However, do note that both standards can be used from 1 Jan 2015 up until 30 Jun 2015.

 

[Guest125]

Are we in agreement that after the 1st of July you should not be installing to the previous version? Regardless whether or not it is designed in December 2014.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

One of the problems the IET has, is that any new requirements suggest that earlier versions are unsafe.
Due to this they issue a disclaimer which they hope will prevent litigation for issuing poor or even dangerous advice in earlier versions.

No I cannot at this time agree that installations must be constructed to the new requirements after the 1st of July, without first seeing the final draft of the new requirements.
From what has been posted, it appears that if the design is to the current requirements then even if construction begins after the new requirements come into force, it can still be constructed to the requirements in force at the time of design.