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olsonn

Had a nice simple job this morning, replace 7 plastic double sockets with brushed chrome on a TNS INSTALLATION. Do the job right and issue a minor works cert. So start off by checking r1, r2 and rn at the board. r1 and r2 as expected, but rn is off the scale Start to investigate the individual sockets, 4 are on the ring and 3 are spares, but they have not been spared off the ring sockets, so I assume that there will be some JBs under the floorboards. Find two of the back boxes are well rusty due to a previous damp problem. replace the back boxes rewire sockets, but still get the same reading .Now the real problem starts, there is no access under the floor as wooden floor has been laid over the floorboards, so if there are any loose connections I can't access them.

What should I do in this situation.

Any help advice or observations greatly received
 
check that all socket outlets have a cpc. try and find between which 2 s/o's the cpc is broken. see if there is an alternative route to bridge a separate cpc.
 
You have the right to note limitations. No access via floor to further investigate. If customer refuses to have floor lifted then you agree a limitation with them.
 
sorry folkks, misread the post ( no ale yet ) it's the neutral not the cpc .DOH!
 
You are not obliged to issue a MWC for the work you have carried out. You can supply them with the cert with the results you have found if you want (always good practice) and highlight the fault. You can then outline the problem you have come across to your customer and what would need doing for you to resolve the issue. If the customer is not interested/not willing to pay to find the fault then you can walk away.
 
Sorry have they now put a limitation section on a MEIWC?

Where does it say you can't have a limitation on any cert? Lets use the word limitation as its real definition! If you can't access the wiring to investigate further and customer agrees for no further investigation. You cover your backside by writing it on the cert you are supplying. That way if anything goes ----- up you've done what you can with the customers agreement!
 
As electromonkey stated You dont have to issue a minor works for changing accessories,or at least the Nic have that rule
Nic inspection and testing
Acceptable and non acceptable use of minor works certificate
Q Replacement of accessories such as socket oulets
Regarded as maintenance work,a record of test results may be recorded on the certificate, but other forms are not precluded

Put the advise on the invoice and treat it as a future job if they request it
 
Where does it say you can should be more to the point, as a PIR clearly states you can set limitations, I would have thought that the IET would have included the same section to the MEIWC and the EIC if they wanted you to set limitations on these documents.

On an EIC on the Schedules of Test result you can mark Deviations from the BS 7671-2008 but not limitations. On a MEIWC you can also comment on the existing installation, but again not limit it.

So where do we go with these limitations, supply a new circuit, no bonding but the floor is terracota tiles throughout , no problem set it as a limitation and not fit bonding.

I want to supply a shower but can't be bothered to RCD, as there is no spare way in the CU and the client won't pay for a new board or a sub board, ok I'll set a limitation on that.

There is a fault on the circuit that I have worked on but I can't fault find it as the client don't want me to rip his floor up, i know I set a limitation on the MEIWC and leave it.

If the client as a fault which is on the circuit, you can issue a danger warning notice to them and make them sign it.
 
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I agree with Malcolm
If an installation certificate for the work carried out is required, it cannot contain limitations

Also there is no provision on a minor works or eic for any limitations
 
If the client as a fault which is on the circuit, you can issue a danger warning notice to them and make them sign it.

Exactly which is the same as marking a limitation. You've covered you backside either way. They know they have a fault you have told them and thats that.

They have 2 optionS a) rip the floor up or b) declare that they are aware but don't want it investigated any further and thats that. Marked on the certificate you issue.
 
split the ring. find out where the break is between 2 sockets. if you can't access the fault, you could split the ring into 2 radials each fed from a 16 or 20A MCB. ( if there is a spare way in the board). problem would be if there was a spur connected into the part of the ring you cut out.
 
That is a limitation for the work you have done. For instance on a CU change your EIC just covers that and not the entire installation. Or a new circuit for a cooker, your limitation is that cooker circuit not the sockets in the kitchen. So that in 2 yrs time a socket bursts into flames and in the investigation your EIC was produced it would show that your worked and tests just covered the cooker circuit.

It is not a limitation so you can omit doing a proper job, but just limits your responsibilty to ensure the EIC covers the work you have done, and not an enitre installation.
 
That is a limitation for the work you have done. For instance on a CU change your EIC just covers that and not the entire installation. Or a new circuit for a cooker, your limitation is that cooker circuit not the sockets in the kitchen. So that in 2 yrs time a socket bursts into flames and in the investigation your EIC was produced it would show that your worked and tests just covered the cooker circuit.

It is not a limitation so you can omit doing a proper job, but just limits your responsibilty to ensure the EIC covers the work you have done, and not an enitre installation.

Malcom you know where I am coming from. You are doing a proper job if you inform the customer of the fault. My point is if you go ahead with the accessory swop I'd at least make a note of the fault on any cert I issued. Whether it be a limitation, deviation or just a good solid note to the next spark or Judge that may come along.
 
I agree Serv but remember this is an open forum and by stating you can set limitations in that context is not really right. You can of course mark it down as a comment on the existing installation, and IMO I would issue a danger notice and then a letter to hightlight the fact.

To be honest with you, If I have a hi rn reading on a new socket plate, I can understand you may get that on an old plate, then to me that would indicated a neutral somewhere loose and if it wasn't in the sockets it could be in a JB somewhere. And the client did not want further investigation, I would seriously be thinknig about taking the new plates off and fitting the old back and leaving the installation as found, issue that danger notice and also letter them.
 

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