No CPC on lighting circuit ............

[martingstacey]

Which "classification" states it a Code 3.

Electrical safety first Best practice guide 4 which you take in to you exam for periodic inspection and test and certification

 

[martingstacey]

If anyone other than the guy above has anything constructive to add ie whether I’m right with it being a c3 or not please comment. If like the guy above you don’t want to answer and just want to argue please look elsewhere as I’m trying to get help answers.

 

[Strima]

 

[Richard Burns]

If anyone other than the guy above has anything constructive to add ie whether I’m right with it being a c3 or not please comment. If like the guy above you don’t want to answer and just want to argue please look elsewhere as I’m trying to get help answers.

The code that is applied is the decision of the inspector of the installation as they have the awareness to be able to assess the level of risk caused by the observation.
In the case of the failed conduit a fault from line to the conduit would result in the conduit becoming live, possibly over a large area of the installation.
In the case of a cable installed in an insulating medium this hazard does not arise and so the risk is negligible.
In the case of a normal domestic installation (if such a thing exists) cables are often buried in plaster that, if wet, could provide a potentially partially conductive path, however the likelihood of it being wet may be very low, and so on. All these aspects should be taken into account to adequately assess the level of risk, this can often be done with minimal assessment based on previous experience, occasionally things catch you out.

 

[Strima]

As I replied earlier, C2 as the original CPC has now degraded and is not fit or safe for continued use.

Could be a C3 if no class 1 accessories on the circuit and a note on the DB. However part of the installation could now become live under fault conditions. It’s up to the inspector to judge the risk of human contact during fault conditions with the existing conduit that has poor continuity and to report accordingly.

 

[martingstacey]

The code that is applied is the decision of the inspector of the installation as they have the awareness to be able to assess the level of risk caused by the observation.
In the case of the failed conduit a fault from line to the conduit would result in the conduit becoming live, possibly over a large area of the installation.
In the case of a cable installed in an insulating medium this hazard does not arise and so the risk is negligible.
In the case of a normal domestic installation (if such a thing exists) cables are often buried in plaster that, if wet, could provide a potentially partially conductive path, however the likelihood of it being wet may be very low, and so on. All these aspects should be taken into account to adequately assess the level of risk, this can often be done with minimal assessment based on previous experience, occasionally things catch you out.

Thanks for your response. I have assessed it as far a I can and as you say cables are buried in plaster. The house is a dry house but obviously I can’t rule out that one day there could be a leak. I’ve changed all light fittings and switches to class 2, I’ve put a sticker on the board stating circuit number has no provision for earth and fittings must not be replaced with metal. I’ve put it in writing to landlord that in my opinion he should look at rewiring or installing cpc to that circuit and told him the safety aspects of circuits being earthed. I’ve done all paperwork and classed it as c3 improvement recommend. I don’t see there is much more I can do.

 

[Richard Burns]

You have made a recommendation for improvement on the basis that there is not an immediate significant danger but that there is a potential risk in this arrangement.
Therefore it is a C3 classified observation.
You have made the assessment as the inspector and I would say that it is a justified approach.
My wet plaster reference was merely an example and remember that there has to be both a fault and wet plaster for there to be a risk, vanishingly small risk in a domestic property, but still definitely possible as a fault could exist unnoticed for a long time until the bath overflows.

 

[martingstacey]

Thanks Richard Burns and strima much appreciated

 

[Darkwood]

@martingstacey
Welcome to the forum , when asking for help on the forum you will get various opinions be they to your liking or not, reading through the thread I see no issue with responses and even those you disagree with have apologised as to how you reacted to them, if you are on an active course then please apply for our trainee section where your questions will be answered with full respect of your trainee position, you deemed some questions a bit negative for your liking but with full respect they are questions which I would expect to be put your way, may I ask what qualifications you have and do you have any onsite trained experience like a full apprenticeship, this knowledge will allow members to respond appropriately and not to make assumptions and consequently pull the thread off course as you bounce off each other.

 

[westward10]

Electrical safety first Best practice guide 4 which you take in to you exam for periodic inspection and test and certification

View attachment 38815

View attachment 38816

View attachment 38817

If you were working with me I would ask what you thought and the consequences of cables not incorporating cpcs, if you can answer this then Coding will be straightforward.

 

[Midwest]

Mate if you’ve nothing to say about the original question then don’t bother answering. I’m not learning eicr on the job but clearly they can’t show every possible situation in college and I don’t know everything like clearly you do.

all I was asking was am I right listing it as c3 as classification states

• Absence of circuit protective conductors in circuits having only Class II (or all- insulated) luminaires and switches.

But this thread list c2 due to conduit being present in original question. I just wanted a second opinion for my own piece of mind.

If you were working with me I would ask what you thought and the consequences of cables not incorporating cpcs, if you can answer this then Coding will be straightforward.

I see a solution to this conflict; why don't you westward act as a mentor towards martingstacey, other prominent members have done such things recently; offering your personnel experience in this field, privately between yourselves.

After all; 'In vain have you acquired knowledge if you have not imparted it to others (Deuteronomy).

 

[Briggs69]

C2 for me.problem with eicr’s is everyone views every problem different.could have 5 sparks look at the one problem and get 5 different answers and codings.up to how each individual views it.the problem I have with eicr’s at the moment is that you find problems and the customer thinks you are just trying to get work out of it for yourself.does anyone else have this problem.can open a whole can of worms