Discuss No RCD in place.. in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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dancematic66

Hi all,

I have a question for you regarding UK law and RCD protection on radial circuits in a domestic property.

My mother lives in a council owned house which was converted from an old TB hospital in the 1960s.

All circuits in the property are radial not ring.

The property wiring is pre 1970s and the consumer unit for the house consists of two old style 6A fuses (upstairs & downstairs lighting) and two 32A MCBs (cooker circuit & radial circuit which covers both floors).

Recently the council carried out electrical work on the building (installation of PIR LED lighting & smoke detectors). They installed a new consumer unit labelled 'Landlord's Supply' and all four circuits are controlled by RCBOs...

Also the other 5 properties in the complex do not have any RCD protection on their circuits.

What do you guys make of this, as I am not a qualified electrician I am not aware of current regulations.

Many thanks for your help,

Michael.
 
Hi i=p/u,

Maybe my post is confusing.

No work has been carried out to the tenant's supplies, none of them have any RCD protection however the council carried out their own work and installed RCBOs on the newly created circuits.
 
When any work is carried out, only the new installation has to comply with current regs.

There is no need to alter the whole installation if it is not being worked on.
 
Hi dilib,

So even though the council own the property they do not have to bring old circuits up to regs if they have not carried out any work on them?

I believe it was the council who installed the two 32A MCBs a few years ago and also a few days ago they earthed some metal conduits within the property.

Would that work deem them responsible to bring it up to regs?

What about from a safety aspect?

Thanks,

Michael.
 
How long ago were the 32 amps MCBs fitted it is only since 2008 that sockets in domestic dwellings have to be RCD/RCBO protected so if it was before this then there is no need to have it done retrospectively.

As I said they don't have to provide RCD protection for anything exisiting just what work they carry on any circuit. Earthing conduits is certainly no reason to do this neither.

Should you have any doubt about it maybe contact the council and raise your concern with them.
 
Hi Dilib,

Thanks for your reply, I thought as much!

We have contacted the council, electricians are visiting tomorrow at 9.30am.

Surely they have to install RCDs on circuits for safety if it is in the new edition though? Regardless of work carried out or not just on a safety basis??

@Engineer54 & everyone else: 4 properties are council owned, 2 are privately owned (previously council owned).
 
Its also a question of relative priorities.

Domestic electrical supplies have been in existence for 120 years, RCBOs have been around for 10 years. On the other hand RCDs or methods of detecting residual currents and voltage rises on earthing systems have been in existence from the 1920s

Fault protection seemed to work pretty well as long as the DIYers kept their fingers out of the pie.

There is, of course, the changes in utilization but i can't see how you need to bother with that.
 
Hi Dilib,

Thanks for your reply, I thought as much!

We have contacted the council, electricians are visiting tomorrow at 9.30am.

Surely they have to install RCDs on circuits for safety if it is in the new edition though? Regardless of work carried out or not just on a safety basis??

@Engineer54 & everyone else: 4 properties are council owned, 2 are privately owned (previously council owned).

If only this was the legal requirement and everybody stuck to it, but sadly not and from what you've outlined there is no requirement to install RCD's at the cost to the tax payer in your mothers home. If however she wants/needs additional sockets then this changes along with additional checks/requirements.
 
Why the necessity to drop in comment's like 'at the cost to the taxpayer'?

My mother is a teacher and pays her taxes as do I.

Sorry but that read as though it was a bit of a dig..
 
Why the necessity to drop in comment's like 'at the cost to the taxpayer'?

My mother is a teacher and pays her taxes as do I.

Sorry but that read as though it was a bit of a dig..

You are the one that stated it was a Council house and are expecting them to do something. As a teacher I'm sure your mum has means to pay herself.
 
I do upgrades on council houses and as previously stated by other guys, you don't have to install an rcd unless you work on the circuit, or the scope from the council dictates it. As said the regs are not retrospective so only new stuff must comply, otherwise there are slot of properties that don't comply. Also I'm pretty sure the last time I looked that the regs weren't law. If it was there would be a lot of joe public locked up for tinkering with electrics
 
I do upgrades on council houses and as previously stated by other guys, you don't have to install an rcd unless you work on the circuit, or the scope from the council dictates it. As said the regs are not retrospective so only new stuff must comply, otherwise there are slot of properties that don't comply. Also I'm pretty sure the last time I looked that the regs weren't law. If it was there would be a lot of joe public locked up for tinkering with electrics

Thanks everyone for your help!

If the regs aren't enforceable by law then isn't it pointless having them?


[Murdoch, your comment was unnecessary. Regardless of council property this topic has no place for references about taxpayers money.]
 
Yep, I knew that was the reason behind having them.

My question was quite blunt!

If a qualified electrician for instance, didn't follow regulations installing RCD protection on a ring circuit in a new development and someone died as a result of a lethal shock. Would the electrician be held accountable and the non guidance of regs be used against him in a court of law?
 
Yep, I knew that was the reason behind having them.

My question was quite blunt!

If a qualified electrician for instance, didn't follow regulations installing RCD protection on a ring circuit in a new development and someone died as a result of a lethal shock. Would the electrician be held accountable and the non guidance of regs be used against him in a court of law?

Yes and yes.
 
as a sparks you're guilty until proven innocent in a court of law, so yes the sparks would get charged with manslaughter and serve time.
 

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