No RCD Risk Assesment

[dean7828]

hello chaps,
I have a battle going on in a new position I am employed in with the statutory compliance manager, i have advised him that dew to the new 3rd amendment all 20amp sockets are now required to be protected by an RCD,
I have added an extra socket to an existing ring which has no additional protection from an RCD, am i right to advise him that he will have to sign a risk assessment to accompany the minor works cert? if so dose anyone know were i can download one.
the old DBs are unsuitable to hold RCD/RCBOs and main switch RCD protection is not viable.
any advice on how to tackle him on this matter would be appreciated. as its my name on the forms not his.
many thanks

 

[telectrix]

you're right. a RA needs to be produced. my preferred method would be fitting a RCD in a separate enclosure adjacent to the old CU, feed from the socket circuit's OCPD to the RCD in 6.0mm ( and the N ) and divert the circuit onto the RCD. that way the whole circuit would have RCD protection.

 

[dean7828]

hi, thanks for the reply, yes that is a solution however there is no room and its a large building an i will come up against this issue in the future, would be good to get the risk assessment signed before work is done.
the attached document is what I have found, maybe of some use
http://www.amtech.co.uk/ht150515

 

[davesparks]

The point of the risk assessment is to assess the risks and establish whether or not an RCD is required.

You cannot simply just sign a standard risk assessment every time it's a little bit difficult to fit am rcd

 

[Flanders]

AS Dave say s the risk assessment should be done before , I my self have never use the risk assessment in this situation as like you I would not no where to start and would not like to make my self liable for it , so as you can not do it Tels way I would suggest using A RCD socket (As long as the cable is installed so that it does not require RCD protection) After all an RCD in my mind is much safer that a piece of paper with Risk Assessment wrote on it .

 

[dean7828]

The point of the risk assessment is to assess the risks and establish whether or not an RCD is required.

You cannot simply just sign a standard risk assessment every time it's a little bit difficult to fit am rcd

Agreed!

 

[Leesparkykent]

http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/54/rcd-protection-of-sockets/index.cfm

An old document but worth a read imo.

 

[westward10]

The Minor Works does mention a risk assessment if you are not going to provide additional rcd protection but you would be hard pushed justifying not doing it. As previously mentioned fit an rcd socket assuming the new cable does not also require rcd protection, if it does fit a separate rcd at the CU as already advised.

 

[Flanders]

http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/54/rcd-protection-of-sockets/index.cfm

An old document but worth a read imo.

That a good document and is why i am not prepared to go for the risk assessment method , , oh and i would of give you a like but still no sign of it

 

[David M]

hello chaps,
I have a battle going on in a new position I am employed in with the statutory compliance manager, i have advised him that dew to the new 3rd amendment all 20amp sockets are now required to be protected by an RCD,
I have added an extra socket to an existing ring which has no additional protection from an RCD, am i right to advise him that he will have to sign a risk assessment to accompany the minor works cert? if so dose anyone know were i can download one.
the old DBs are unsuitable to hold RCD/RCBOs and main switch RCD protection is not viable.
any advice on how to tackle him on this matter would be appreciated. as its my name on the forms not his.
many thanks

Would it not have been better to do the risk assessment before you installed the additional socket outlet? After doing the assessment you would conclude (my guess) that additional protection via a RCD is required, therefore the additional socket should not be installed until the modification to the circuit i.e. adding the RCD, was completed?

I'm just thinking of how a barrister in a court of law would question the procedure should (god forbid) someone was injured due to an electric shock.

Sometimes you have to stand your ground with these folk who are naïve to the regs and why they are implemented. At the end of the day you would be held responsible if something untoward were to happen.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no need to modify the existing circuit or use a bogus RA.
Just install an RCD socket.

 

[7029 dave]

Even if he use's a socket with RCD, what about if he has chased the additional cable in the wall and its not more that 50mm depth he still has to comply to protect the cable too.?

 

[sinewove]

What legal protection,if any does a r/a give?

 

[LeeH]

They are required by law so if implemented correctly, quite a lot I would say.

 

[EastAnglian]

Simple approach to assessing risk ...... imagine you are in the dock at the Coroner's Court and have been asked by the best barrister in the land to justify a descision you took on an electrical installation which has resulted in a death.

Can you categorically state to the Coroner that what you did, at the time that you did it was justified and can you step through the risk assessment process used to support this justification? If so, then do it. If not, then find another way to solve the problem.

 

[Gnasher]

When you modify a circuit you must ensure hat that circuit is compliant with the current edition of BS7671. It looks like you are using a risk assessment to get you out of this requirement. I would be hard pressed to come up with any reasons nor to have an RCD if it is a requirement of BS7671, as the skilled or instructed person has now been removed.
What reasons and precautions would you use not to have an RCD on your RA.
as you may need to defend your reasons in front of a Judge if someone should be electrocuted.