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Q

quinlivanb

Hey Guys! I'm not an electrician by trade but I need some advice on what seems like a serious safety issue.

Recently bought a flat in an old ex-council building and had a builder in to gut and rebuild the place. He says he got an electrician in to do the work in the kitchen but I have some serious issues with the quality of the work.

Last night when using the dish washer I got a shock when my hands came in contact with the case of the dish-washer (metal) and the kitchen sink (stainless). I was worried by this and assumed it must be an earthing issue so I pulled out some of the new kitchen to take a look.

I found that all the new electrical work in the kitchen was connected to the older system at a single point point and has no earthing connected at all. Please see pictures. Earthing was connected to all the plugs in the kitchen but as you can see the earth wire doesn't go anywhere. My builder says that they just rewired things the way they found it but I was very surprised that he didn't even mention this issue to me. I only found out after getting a shock.

I assume the shock I got was an induced current in the earth wires being grounded via the kitchen sink and the cold water pipe?

When we hired the builder he assured us that all work would be carried out by registered trades-people as we indeed to use this property as a rental and will need all the certificates that go along with this!

I need some advice on this issue. Not worried about the cost of fixing it but just want to get someone in that we can trust.


No sign of any earthing in newly installed kitchen... Please Help! IMG_0347 - EletriciansForums.net

No sign of any earthing in newly installed kitchen... Please Help! IMG_0348 - EletriciansForums.net

No sign of any earthing in newly installed kitchen... Please Help! IMG_0351 - EletriciansForums.net
 
Welcome to the forum quinlivanb, I have approved your post so you can get feedback, you may find you are given DIY status when admin is next online and the thread maybe relocated, this will not effect any posting already made :)

In reply - It looks like you have been conned on the Electrics and left with a somewhat dangerous installation, regardless how the so called Electrician found it, all his work has to meet and comply to the 17th edition Amendment 3 BS7671 regulations... it is clear this is not the case and somewhat of a complete mess with major safety concern.

I would get an independent company in to do a full inspection on the electrics and use the results as you evidence to threaten said builders with legal action to cover the costs of all work required to rectify and make good the installation. Express after getting independent advice on the condition of the 'new electrics' you have lost faith in the ability of the said company to provide anyone to do the work to the required standards, I would also ensure you do all correspondance through Email if possible so you have evidence of the discussions.

I cannot say the builder is at fault here as he may genuinely believe he hired a competent electrician but its clear this was not done by an Electrician.

If you have not yet paid for the work then hold the money back and tell them you are taking legal action (depending on the findings of your independent electrical report).

I personally wouldn't let this company back into the premises looking at the quality of work you have shown :sad3:
 
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Yeah the wiring in the photos is atrocious, there's no excuse in the world for leaving it like this plus there's no way the circuits could have passed the required tests.

Was any paperwork issued for the work the electrician did?
Is the electrician a member of an electrical scheme?

You could lodge a complaint with his scheme if he is or maybe trading standards if he isn't, maybe one of the UK members will give better advice on how to go about this.

Getting a shock usually is the result of more than one fault so just reconnecting the earth wires isn't sufficient so you're going to need a decent local sparky to test and remedy the problems. If you can post a more accurate location maybe one of the forum members would be interested in assisting.
 
If the original wiring is in steel conduit, and those unsheathed red and black cables are single conduit cables, then the point at which they have broken in to the ring to add the new sockets might have been entirely satisfactory and properly earthed. It might therefore not be too difficult to make safe, if you can get at that point to pick the earth up, but as per the above wise posts I wouldn't take anything for granted because of the blatant ignorance or disregard shown by the 'installer'. I guess they wouldn't have understood that ring final circuits and 13A socket outlets have always been required to be earthed, no exceptions.

Truly mind-boggling!
 
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Worth pointing out here that whoever carried out this work has broken the law as it is domestic premises and comes under part P. If it was left in a dangerous condition and resulted in electric shocks there are grounds for prosecution.
 
The installers moral compass is F*****. Its sad to see how paying customers get treated. If it was me i would want heads on the line... Get a qualified electrician in asap to either make safe temporarily and then go about getting your money and a properly functioning electrical system back. Good luck.
 
Wow that's truly horrific !
Whoever you paid for this needs to foot the bill to have this put right, no ifs, no buts. This is a trading standards issue if I ever saw one. Also a complaint needs to be fired off at the scheme that the electrician belongs to, if they are in one.
I'm guessing no certificates were issued with this work ?
As Darkwood says, get an independent inspection/survey/report and use this as the basis of legal action. You should not have to pay a penny more to get this sorted, and this sort of carry on needs to be stopped. Drag whoever over the coals for doing this !
 
Looks like you have a cowboy builder in tow mate, sorry I feel you have been had
 
It's hard to believe than anyone could do something like that and walk away, atrocious and extremely dangerous - apart from the complete lack of earthing the junction box is without doubt a lighting one and the terminals won't take the current of a ring circuit [not for long anyway] - particularly in a kitchen where the majority of the load usually is. I'd be suspicious that the builder or one of his workers did this and charged for the phantom 'electrician' - it needs switching off until properly sorted by a decent sparks.
 
bad? it's diabollockall.
 
If the original wiring is in steel conduit, and those unsheathed red and black cables are single conduit cables, then the point at which they have broken in to the ring to add the new sockets might have been entirely satisfactory and properly earthed. It might therefore not be too difficult to make safe, if you can get at that point to pick the earth up, but as per the above wise posts I wouldn't take anything for granted because of the blatant ignorance or disregard shown by the 'installer'. I guess they wouldn't have understood that ring final circuits and 13A socket outlets have always been required to be earthed, no exceptions.

Truly mind-boggling!

I wouldn't be surprised if the CPCs were all cut off in the socket boxes too.
 
Utter joke, similar happened on a recent job of mine, new spots had been fitted in the kitchen and dining rooms, all the earths had been cut before they entered the junction boxes.........obviously no testing been done!
 
One letter to the builder, a copy of the letter and a covering letter to trading standards.

You need names of individuals and certificates.

A shambles - out of interest was the builder a UK person?
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I have booked my own qualified electrician to come and sort this out tomorrow morning. It's really great to hear that those of you in the know agree that the work is substandard. I will post back tomorrow and let you know what my electrician thinks of the situation!

After talking to my builder this evening it came out this 'his electrician' doing the work was in fact himself!

Pity the renovation of the flat has just been finished and we will most likely need to run new wires :-/ On the upside I still owe him £700 which should hopefully cover the cost of the new work... better get someone in to double check the gas and plumbing too!!

Thanks guys!
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies! I have booked my own qualified electrician to come and sort this out tomorrow morning. It's really great to hear that those of you in the know agree that the work is substandard. I will post back tomorrow and let you know what my electrician thinks of the situation!

After talking to my builder this evening it came out this 'his electrician' doing the work was in fact himself!

Pity the renovation of the flat has just been finished and we will most likely need to run new wires :-/ On the upside I still owe him £700 which should hopefully cover the cost of the new work... better get someone in to double check the gas and plumbing too!!

Thanks guys!

There should be no hoping about anything. Your attitude should be that he WILL be paying for all rectification work regardless of cost.
 

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