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Discuss Outdoor junction box for armoured cable in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Lolopopo
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    Lolopopo EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Hello all,

    Got a bit of a situation with my new garage, I've got a 2.5mm cable coming out of the house consumer unit for supplying mains to the garage, there is an armoured cable inside a conduit that goes underground and comes out in the garage. Inside the garage, it goes into its own consumer unit and the rest is good.

    The problem I have is the junction outside the house where the 2.5mm meets the armoured cable, I can't find any glands or outdoor rated junction boxes to suit an armoured cable and 2.5mm.

    This is how it looks at the moment, not ideal but stays dry with the lid on and I keep the supply off when not in use. It's a random metal box, not suited for this purpose, it has holes in it and doesn't have any ingress ratings.

    IMG_20170620_203122.jpg

    Please can someone recommend a junction box to suit both the armoured cable and 2.5mm or similar solution? Thanks!
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  2. stidge
    Offline

    stidge Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Nottingham
    Just use a normal IP65 plastic adapt box and drill your 20mm holes to suit and fasten gland or copex with nut !!!!!!!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. LankyWill
    Offline

    LankyWill Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northants
    Is it always strewn across the floor like that? looks like a rough job if im honest, poor cable management using an armoured gland for t&e is a no no. Id suggest your employ a registered electrician to rectify that abortion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Best get a spark in to do this... then the SWA will get glanded properly too
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    IP65 adaptable box screwed to wall. any wholesaler will have them. if plastic you'll need banjos or pirhanna nuts and a fly lead to maintain the cpc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    I think the best thing would be to get a reputable electrician in to sort that mess out for you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. LankyWill
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    LankyWill Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northants
    It's a massive jb and there's still copper on show. Both glands are loose, the more I look the worse I feel.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. DavidSpark
    Offline

    DavidSpark Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Glasgow
    Definitely follow the advice above and get a suitable box mounted to the wall and sort those glads out, or failing that, get someone in who is competent to fix it.

    Have you issued the spiders an eviction notice yet?
     
  9. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Indeed, the first thing I look for is a lack of earthing on the armour. The box itself doesnt even seem to be earthed:eek:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Okay what do you reckon the box is from. I reckon an old MEM Exel fuseboard.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  11. Lolopopo
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    Lolopopo EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Thanks for all the replies. It's quite funny and I appreciate the concern and advice.

    It was meant to be a temporary solution put in by myself but then I didn't find a suitable box in Wickes or Screwfix that would accept the armoured cable.

    It is some kind of old box that housed a switch, definitely not water tight.

    I will try to find an IP65 box that can be drilled out to size.

    I am not an electrician but I am doing a masters in Electronic Engineering, admittedly specialising in embedded software. I also have a copy of the 17th edition BSI Wiring Standards somewhere but I haven't really read it. I don't need an electrician, I just can't find a box. The wiring in the garage is much better! I have emergency stop buttons for the sockets, LED lighting, and a PIR for the lights.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
  12. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Lolopopo and Welcome to the Forum !
    Appreciate you say you don't need an Electrician, but there is lots wrong here besides the box. Sorry to be blunt.
     
    • Agree Agree x 13
  13. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Purchase a Wiska junction box, a Wiska Earth clamp for SWA glands and some Wiska silicon gel.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  14. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    You do need an electrician, what you have done so far is dangerous and not acceptable even as a temporary measure. You haven't even managed to follow the accepted convention on core colours.
    You won't find a box to accept the armoured cable, you have to match the correct glands up with a standard box of suitable IP rating. What type of glands are they at the moment? They look like they could be armoured cable glands but then one of the has T&E in it which makes no sense.

    A masters in electronic engineering is pretty much irrelevant, it won't save your life if you were to receive an electric shock.
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
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  15. Risteard
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    Risteard Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Derry, Ireland
    Business Name:
    Walsh Electrical Services
    Don't do any of that - just purchase an Electrician.
     
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  16. LankyWill
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    LankyWill Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northants
    Your degree is completely irrelevant, I think your over estimating your skill set. Not only are you putting your self at risk but also others that come into contact with your 'have a go' attitude.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. Spoon
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    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Thanks for that mate. It's made my day. Couldn't stop laughing.... :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
     
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  18. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    give the poor boy some credit. in Lancashire it would be a choc block wrapped in a tesco carrier bag. :oops:
     
    • Funny Funny x 8
  19. HandySparks
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    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Hampshire
    Business Name:
    Neish Electrical Services
    I hate to disagree, but...
     
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  20. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    choice is between phoning an electrician and phoning the Coo-op Funeral service. no brainer. electrician is far less cost. them gravediggers charge £500 for a wooden box that gets toasted.
     
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  21. gazdkw82
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    gazdkw82 Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    leicester
    OP - you obviously know this is not up to standard, hence why you posted looking for advice in the first place.

    You've been advised by some very knowledgeable people that in its current situation the Junction box and associated wiring needs to be corrected by a competent person.

    that isn't you.

    Its not a cold water feed your working with. you wont get wet if (when) it goes wrong.

    do the right thing and get it corrected.

    You can sleep easy at night knowing its installed correctly and safely
     
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  22. DPG
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    DPG Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    S Yorkshire
    Gazdkw sums it up well. I'm all for enthusiastic diy but this goes a little beyond that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  23. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Gaining an electronics degree is as much help as studying Cosmology when it concerns competence of the practical skill of an electrician

    My opinion,even though you state "you don't need an electrician just a box"
    Best get an electrician to clear up the mess, use the spare time for learning best practice before future electrical attempts
     
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  24. Upton Sparks
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    Upton Sparks Active EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Business Name:
    Kilowatt Electricals Ltd
    I think your Problem is you've broken the Law.!

    While BS7671 The electrical wiring regulations is a non statutory document, Part P of the building Regulation is a statutory requirement ! have you made notification to the local building control ?

    Also were you planning on taking this dangerous installation out when you eventually sell the house or would you just leave it in for the next unsuspecting home owner?

    Its is not safe and it could quite possibly be lethal, I really hope you don't have any small children running around the house.... no worth thinking about really.

    Please get an electrician in to make it safe.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Spoon
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    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Come on people.... This has to be a wind up.....
    I hope it is...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. hightower
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    hightower Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Durham
    How do you know it needs to be notified?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Lolopopo
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    Lolopopo EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Wow... Calm down guys, yes I sleep well at night because the box isn't live, I kill the supply when it's not in use as mentioned above. It was a temporary measure that I've only just got round to addressing.

    I know my degree isn't wholly relevant, I was just giving some background, I'm not a DIYer who's gone too far, I've designed, tested, and had approved circuitry for safety systems and modules used in building management systems for a multi national company... With your recommendation I will find an appropriate box with glands and rectify the problem! I will take photos when I'm done.

    As far as I know the council doesn't need to be notified because there was an existing garage with power, (you guys would've freaked out if you saw the wiring for that, but no photos sadly!).

    Once the box is fitted it will be a massive improvement on what was already in place.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
  28. Upton Sparks
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    Upton Sparks Active EF Member

    Location:
    London
    Business Name:
    Kilowatt Electricals Ltd
    I like that High tower!... your right I don't know if it needs Notification as I've not done the a site survey, but its should be one of the first question you think off when working on outside electrics..... And there is the difference there, in your own home you can pretty much do what you like with impunity, but Part P is a Law and you can be prosecuted for non complying..... not that you would think that with the number of prosecution ...

    Lolopopo.... if its temporary why don't you just run an extension lead out ?

    http://www.screwfix.com/p/ip65-adap...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CIyB7aafz9QCFQoS0wodje8HxQ

    you could use that box from screw a 20mm hole for the SWA and use a stuffing gland for the Twin and earth.... or buy an extension lead with an RCD plug.
     
  29. davesparks
    Offline

    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Lovely, but how does that apply to carrying out electrical installation work. As far as I am aware designing and approving safety systems is a very different set of rules and regulations to be working under.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Specialist
    Offline

    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Actually in this instance a DIY'er that's gone too far, is exactly what you are.
    You say you've designed safety systems, yet in the work you've shown us you seem to have shown total disregard for safety. You say it's isolated when not in use, but by the same token when in use it must be live & therefore Dangerous.

    As for not needing to call an Electrician, I beg to differ. Going on what you've shown then you most certainly do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  31. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Can I have your Big yellow book if you are obviously not using it - I'm still working from the green book as I'd rather buy tools than books.
    Joking aside - I agree with all the above responses, you only live once so get an electrician to tidy and test. He/she may even pat you on the back for the garage installed accessories.
     
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  32. hightower
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    hightower Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Durham
    Outside doesn't require notification unless other factors come in to play.

    @Rpa07@Rpa07 drop me a pm might have something lying about
     
  33. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    green book.i'm still on the red one. ( have a pdf of the green though)
     
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  34. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    You can lead a horse to water...........
     
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  35. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    but you have to hold his head under to drown him.
     
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  36. Lolopopo
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    Lolopopo EF Member

    Location:
    London
  37. Specialist
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    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. buzzlightyear
    Online

    buzzlightyear Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
     
  39. davesparks
    Offline

    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Why do you need to check the diameter of the cable for simple SWA? Just ask your wholesaler for the gland for whatever cable you have.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  40. GlenTavener
    Offline

    GlenTavener Active EF Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    It would seem that you know the answers to your problem so not really sure why the question was asked. Go into any electrical wholesaler, or Screwfix or Toolstation, the boxes you want are not expensive. Be sure to fix the cables outside the box, at present it seems any random jerk on them would pull it all apart. With respect having a copy of the regulations and reading them is only the first step to understanding the requirements, interpretation and experience is very necessary. I could read a book on embedded software but it obviously wouldn't make me an expert. Good luck.
     
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  41. Chivers
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    Chivers EF Member

    You've used a black as a neutral, and the grey "neutral" as earth. If you're going to bodge it then bodge it properly and get a plastic stuffing gland for the T&E and a Wiska box that will at least be water tight and re-terminate the armoured correctly and with some earth sleeving and neutral blue sleeving at both ends.

    What's the Zs at the Garage mate?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  42. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    My crystal ball expects the next post from the OP to be something along the lines of "whats the Zs"
     
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  43. Specialist
    Offline

    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Can't really see him knowing that, not many DIY'ers have a loop tester or MFT.
     
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  44. Colin33
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    Colin33 Regular EF Member

    Lolopopo You will need one of these: 32 Amp Wiska Junction Box 85 x 85 x 51mm - Black IP66 - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WK308B.html?ad_position=1o2&source=adwords&ad_id=45425533757&placement=&kw=&network=g&matchtype=&ad_type=pla&product_id=WK308B&product_partition_id=174057601027&test=finalurl_v2&gclid=CL6wzOOt2dQCFa637QoduDEElQ
    And for earth continuity on the armoured cable one of these: Wiska Earth Clamp Bar for SWA Glands - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WKEC308.html
    An SWA gland CW 20mm Small Gland Pack - 3 Part External - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLC20S.html
    And for the 2.5 twin/cpc cable: 20mm Nylon Compression Gland Black for Cable 7-10mm² - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EK251B.html

    Firstly, using a spanner screw the swa gland through two of the seals adjacent to each other on the box to 'break through' these seals. Then remove and fit the swa gland to armoured cable first, then screw the box onto this, then fit the earth clamp inside the box. Make a lead to connect the earth from this clamp to the earth connection inside the box. Fix box to wall in a way which will leave both cables exiting from the underside. Now screw in the plastic cable gland and fit the 2.5 twin/earth cable. Although some will slate you for using the black as neutral and grey as earth, it really makes no difference as long as they are taped or sleeved in some way to indicate their use. However, it's very important to check how they've been used at the garage end of the armoured cable and replicate this. Let us know how you get on, and maybe post a picture of the finished job so that someone can point out any potential problems before you re-energise the circuit. :)
     
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  45. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    you after the booker prize? :):confused:o_O:rolleyes:
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
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