Outside socket on a spur

[Stormflex]

Morning all,

I have a customer who would like an outside socket fitted. There is a double socket inside their patio door.

Can I run this as a straight spur of the current socket or do I need to run it to a FCU first?

Thanks

Rich

 

[Octopus]

Is the double socket on a ring or is it a spur?

 

[malcolmsanford]

The socket at the patio is it part of a ring final circuit or is that indeed a spur itself, if it's a spur of a ring final then no.

Is it part of a radial then yes you can spur off it.

How will you provide RCD protection for the socket if it does not already have it ?

 

[Stormflex]

Good point. I have assumed it is on the ring. The ring is protected by an RCD.

malcolmsanford - are you saying that if the socket is in a ring I can't spur off of it?

 

[telectrix]

if the existin g socket is on the ring, then you can spur off 1 socket without a FCU. if it's on a radial 16A cct. you can just add your otside socket. only if the existing socket is itself spurred off a ring do you need to fit a FCU.

 

[Stormflex]

OK telectrix, thanks for the clarification

 

[malcolmsanford]

No sorry if I misled but if that socket is already a unfused spur off a ring final circuit then you should not spur again off it, as you will have 2 unfused spurs off 1 point on a ring final.

 

[Stormflex]

Thanks malcolmsanford. That I did know

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ok that is cleared up can I ask why you thought you couldn't run it directly off the existing socket without going through a FCU?

 

[sparky3366]

I mostly put a fcu on an outside socket to stop the neighbours plugging their whole house into the outside socket lol

 

[72-van]

HI Guys As you know i come from an It background and had thought that in the distant past they did allow a spur of a spur indeed the house i am in at the moment has one as did my previous place(until i had it fixed).

When did this practice stop and is it still acceptable as a old installation .

The one in my present house is a upstairs ring main with a non fused spur to a dbl socket which in turn has had three further doubles added after that one approx 10ft further on from the spur all looks tickety boo to my "non spark eye".(checked as best i can with my marindale and volt meter)
I use these sockets for low wattage equipment.
Should i be concerned and get it fixed or just leave alone as an old instal?
cheers 72-van

 

[telectrix]

ideally you should fit a 13A FCU before the first spurred socket. this will limit the current drawn by your spur to within the capacity of the cable.

 

[72-van]

Hi Telectrix Thanks for that advice but were i to do that surely i would then be altering an old install and making it "illegal" my plan was to disconnect the extra double sockets which are connected after the original spaur part before selling the place thereby "keeping it right " to my non spark eyes.In the mean time the sockets are in use for devices that probably draw 5amps max between them & i am the only one living there.
Or should i bite the bullet and disconnect the spurred spur thing now and use an extension lead tp power this kit whats best ?

72-van

cheers 72-van

 

[Stormflex]

malcolm - I only wondered because it was going to an external socket

 

[malcolmsanford]

IMO I would fit it via a FCU for a couple of reasons. As said earlier with a switched FCU you can isolate the socket completely when not in use. Also if you ever want to work on it, you can isolate it via the switched FCU without turning off the whole circuit.

Saying that as long as it's just the one un-fused spur point off an existing ring final circuit or a radial there is no need for a FCU.

I was though in my OP more concerend about the RCD protection for this socket.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hi Telectrix Thanks for that advice but were i to do that surely i would then be altering an old install and making it "illegal" my plan was to disconnect the extra double sockets which are connected after the original spaur part before selling the place thereby "keeping it right " to my non spark eyes.In the mean time the sockets are in use for devices that probably draw 5amps max between them & i am the only one living there.
Or should i bite the bullet and disconnect the spurred spur thing now and use an extension lead tp power this kit whats best ?

There is nothing illegal with altering or adding to old or existing installations.
I obviously don't know how old the existing installation is, but having more than one double socket on an unfused spur from a ring final circuit has not been compliant with the Regulations for about 30 years.
Installing an FCU between the ring and the first spurred socket would make the circuit more compliant, and as long as the work is not within a kitchen, would not require notification under Part P.