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  1. SunnyD247
    Offline

    SunnyD247 EF Member

    Location:
    UK
    Business Name:
    Inventor
    Hey there all :)

    I'm new here to this forum site and I have looked around but cannot seem to find this being discussed anywhere on this forum site particularly.

    I had some questions around this particular topic and was wondering if the fine folk of this great forum would be able to assist me in my understanding and be able to provide a somewhat "certified solution" to the question(s).

    Now that we have cleared the WHY for asking the question let’s get to the scenario...


    THE SCENARIO!

    A. Let’s say for argument sake that I had a device... that can create energy in the form of electric and the device is perpetual (Never ending in its creation of electric)

    B. Let’s say that the device is transferring the electric by wires (whatever thickness gauge that is required to carry/transfer the current)

    C. Let’s say that the voltage and current type (AC/DC) can be whatever you decide is best suited.

    D. Let’s also say that the current that is being created, can range from 200KW to 1MW depending on the scale of the device being used.


    NOW… THE QUESTIONS!

    1. What is the BEST voltage to use for storage and general use case and “transferability” if that makes sense?

    2. Using your solution in question 1, how would you handle/manipulate/convert the electric so that it can be easily used for home 220v-240v devices.

    3. HOW would you handle the current that is constantly being created… there is no stopping the device from once it has been started! So where would this excess current go if the demand dropped?

    4. Let’s say that the device being used currently will be creating 200KW of electric (in the optimal chosen current type and voltage that you have chosen) BUT in the future will be upgraded to have an output of 1MW. How would you facilitate for that change in your solution?



    THINGS TO CONSIDER!

    · How would you sell this power realistically back to the grid? (You may want to take this into consideration when choosing the optimal voltage and current type)

    · How would you go about scaling upwards your chosen solution?

    · Cost of obtaining the hardware? EXCLUDING the cost of the device that creates energy perpetually :)


    BONUS ROUND!

    I. Provide links/URLS to retail/commercial sites to obtain the actual hardware you have chosen.


    I appreciate anyone who can tackle the above question and scenario and provide me with a viable solution that could actually be implimented.

    Many thanks in advance for any help and input

    Regards
    Sunny
     
  2. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Hi welcome to the forum.

    It is a pointless exercise going into any detailed answers as your 'perpetual machine' will not work, if you have fallen for the idea you can make one then you have been duped, if you are trying to entice people into a scam then picking an Electrical forum as your hunting ground is probably the worse idea you ever had.

    Can you expand on why you are seeking such info', members are always very willing to help out those with genuine questions but requesting in depth lengthy answers to what is nothing more than a hypothetical situation that is based on a machine that does not exist and cannot exist then this is taking the biscuit a little bit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Jim_e_Jib
    Offline

    Jim_e_Jib Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Devon
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  4. SparkyChick
    Offline

    SparkyChick Making a banana smoothy for my fave gorilla Staff Member Moderator

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    South Wales
    Business Name:
    SparkyChick
    I've never considered any of this because I've understood for a very long time that 'perpetual motion' in the sense you are talking about is pure fantasy.

    But, if you want to sell power to the grid, then the most logical electrical output for the 'machine' is one that is compatible with the grid of the location the machine is operating in and the point of connection for the machine. So, here in the UK, if you're running it in your shed, you'd want to output at 240v 50Hz.

    What happens to the energy produced when consumption is less than production... nothing. What you are creating when you generator electricity is a potential to supply. Nothing will happen if it's not used (this happens all the time during normal power station operation). When energy is not consumed, the loading on the generator will reduce.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. spinlondon
    Offline

    spinlondon Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    If your intention is to sell power to the grid, then choose a voltage which is used near to where you intend to site the machine.
    Stepping the voltage down to usable values is already done in the grid.
    Last two Power stations I worked on were producing 33kV and 11kV.
    The 33kV station was close to an existing 33kV station, whereas the 11kV station was close to an 11kV substation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Wilko
    Online

    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    For voltage changes and transmission AC is most efficient. The higher the voltage the less the energy loss in the transmission cables but the greater is the insulation cost. For 1MW, I suggest 11kV as per @spinlondon@spinlondon :) . The cost for this is likely to be "one million pounds" as you'll need to have land, permits, transmission out etc. Constant loads already suggested pumping (like London sewerage, loads of that) and maybe charging really big storage batteries for use in peak demand times.

    But the real question is - how would you generate this unstoppable never ending electric?
     
  7. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Forum Mentor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    But the real question is - how would you generate this unstoppable never ending electric?

    500,000 hamsters in a big wheel.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. johnduffell
    Offline

    johnduffell Regular EF Member

    Location:
    uk
    Maybe perpetual motion is impossible, but to all intents any purposes nuclear fusion produces unlimited energy.
    Also, the amount of solar energy falling on a small proportion of Britain is enough to power the whole world. I mean we complain about it being wasteful to heat the outside with the door open when it's -2 outside, but the sun heats the whole outside in every country from-100c!
    So
     
  9. Jim_e_Jib
    Offline

    Jim_e_Jib Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Devon
    This is true but we don't yet know how this perpetual energy device works - it may have a minimum loading requirement, below which, self destruction is assured. I would not want to be partly responsible for destroying the world's only source of perpetual energy......
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    @johnduffell@johnduffell
    No one has said we cannot utilise nature to provide energy for free, what the OP said was clear in that it is a perpetual machine, his business tag is also labelled Inventor so I think we best save this guy loads of time and money by explaining why a perpetual machine is nothing more than fictional fantasy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. buzzlightyear
    Online

    buzzlightyear still kicking sand, before pushing up daisies . Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
    what about going to the zoo and watching monkeys swing in a tree is that not perpetual motion .you could hook them up to the grid .:rolleyes:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    How do you keep the monkeys alive again buzz ;)
     
  13. johnduffell
    Offline

    johnduffell Regular EF Member

    Location:
    uk
    Sorry they're still working on producing the works of Shakespeare for me, you can have them when they finish!
     
  14. buzzlightyear
    Online

    buzzlightyear still kicking sand, before pushing up daisies . Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
    to be or not to be, that is the question weather tis noble to suffer a brick &stone !:D
     
  15. SunnyD247
    Offline

    SunnyD247 EF Member

    Location:
    UK
    Business Name:
    Inventor
    Hi All,

    Thank you all for the really helpful responses and interesting solutions suggested on this thread. I appreciate all your view points and approaches to reach a solution to my questions given the parameters and conditions provided.


    @darkwood:)
    The device in question is actually somewhat all three ... it has started taking physical shape, it is theoretical still AND on paper as a working product... formula and calculations make sense. The actual components have started to arrive and testing of these components individually for their accuracy and finer detailed parameters are being completed and received from individual labs.

    For some of you out there thinking this is a "SCAM" LOL have some faith in humanity my friends! I will NEVER ask ANYONE to donate any MONEY or provide ANY type of personal details.... OTHER than their helpful knowledge and their humour to this conversation and research :) simply put I do NOT WANT YOUR MONEY!

    @Jim_e_Jib
    Profit sharing is not really what I would like to do as to be honest, I DO want to make a HUGE profit from it BUT and my BIGGEST GOAL is, to make this product very cheap and sell it at cost to everyone/anyone so that at LEAST one of their needs in life will be free and that they will be less of a slave to the 1% !!!

    I KNOW WHO I AM and my goals will not change regardless of potential profits!

    Also, the device in question is NOT Nuclear LOL

    @SparkyChick
    Some may call it fantasy, which IS just a fancy word for dreaming... Dreams are what CHANGE THE WORLD my friend!

    @spinlondon
    The voltage is limited to between 48v and 1140v is there a way to step this up to the desired voltages without major losses in current?

    @telectrix
    We don't need hamsters... Humans are already running in this wheel metaphorically speaking and we call this THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!!!

    @Wilko
    People are in an illusion that things are not possible... those with the resources NEVER thrive to achieve more, those without... always come up with solutions...


    @johnduffell
    I agree fusion is a very powerful source of energy but the cost and risk (if you’re talking about a fusion reactor) are just as great! also solar panels are temporary and have a fundamental flaw in that they need a light source (solar) to function!



    -------------------------------------------------

    Just to clarify, being able to sell the energy back to grid is the ONLY way to raise capital without giving up stake in the invention and having external people and 1%'ers try bury or own the technology!

    Also, if we can just agree (play "make believe") that the device that is creating the energy is not the topic of discussion (However I can see why there WILL be huge interest in this "fictional" device) BUT our main focus on this thread is HOW to handle the perpetual energy that is being created and with what parameters would it be most optimal to work with GIVEN the conditions.

    ADDITIONAL DETAILS/CONDITIONS/PARAMETERS:


    VARIABLE PARAMETERS

    Let’s say the voltage is limited to between 48v and 1100v ... what would be the best voltage to obtain from the source device?


    Considering

    1. We would like to be able to sell it back to the grid in volume (KW/MW)

    2. We would like to minimise cable volt drop also, but do not know what cables voltages are actually running as standard for transferring/carrying power on the UK Power networks HVC/LVC grid?

    3. We would also like to be able to use the power ourselves so what device would we need to be able to convert the chosen voltage to the desired 220v/240v (IF you have chosen a voltage best suited for selling to the grid but was NOT 220/240v)

    4. How would we handle the energy that is NOT being used…?

    I think either I have it completely WRONG or that we are on the same page, in that the power on the EXISTING network 240v, delivers up to 100 amps on a standard home power line... this equates to roughly about 24000 watts (depending on power factor, we are using ‘1’ for arguments sake) but that doesn't mean that you are CONSTANTLY getting a current delivery of 24000 watts to your house, the load is dynamic and adjusts according to your home demand.

    HOW CAN WE HANDLE DYNAMIC LOAD WITH A PERPETUAL ENERGY SOURCE? in other words what hardware do we need in between the perpetual energy device and the home to give us the dynamic load control?

    Just in case there is any miss understanding let’s say for example the device is creating 1MW @240v and we would like to power up a 240v 60 watt bulb... it will blow instantly as the current will simply over power the 60 watt bulb … thus what hardware do we need to place in between the bulb and the perpetual energy device in order for the bulb not to blow but simply light up the bulb at 60 watts?


    FIXED PARAMETERS

    I am assuming that we will be sticking to AC type of current going forward.



    Appreciation to all those who participate in this think tank.

    Many thank
    Sunny
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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