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clavaspark

Hi All,

I am an Electrician with 15 years' experience of installation and testing; I have my 2391 and can call myself a competent person. I am planning to go self-employed and there are a couple of things I am unsure of as follows.

To carry our PIRs on domestic properties is it a requirement that I should be registered with one of the electrical body's?

Also if a customer asks for a consumer unit change but doesn't want to pay for a PIR for their domestic dwelling would I be breaking any rules by doing this?

Cheers
Si
 
Welcome to the forums.

Was going to answer, but I notice you're in Scotland so I'm not sure on the first query.

The second one, I doubt it but they should be made aware that if issues are found during the changeover additional works might be required which would adversely affect their bill :)

But as I say, I'm not in Scotland so I'm not sure about the specific rules etc. that apply up there.
 
There are two ways to approach a CU change, by the book an EICR is carried out first and any faults rectified before the CU change. But in the real world most CU changes are the result of a request for a quote, and nobody is going to carry out a full EICR as part of an estimate for a CU change they may not even get. Normally I carry out a few basic tests and inspections which with experience is a pretty good guide to whether a CU change is viable when I site visit for the quote. The client is also made aware that full tests will be carried out during the CU change which may result in extra costs should there be any hidden problems.
 
In my opinion an EICR is the only way this can truely be confirmed.

This is what I disagree with ..............

ALL my cu replacement quotes include a caveat about unexpected faults and these adding time and money ............. never had it challenged

But there are rare occasions, where my site visit to discuss a quote will mean I would insist on an EICR or worse I would decline to quote for anything.
 
Hi All,

I am an Electrician with 15 years' experience of installation and testing; I have my 2391 and can call myself a competent person. I am planning to go self-employed and there are a couple of things I am unsure of as follows.

To carry our PIRs on domestic properties is it a requirement that I should be registered with one of the electrical body's?

Also if a customer asks for a consumer unit change but doesn't want to pay for a PIR for their domestic dwelling would I be breaking any rules by doing this?

Cheers
Si
No but you could be in all sorts of difficulties, if you didn't carry out some basic tests prior to changing the CU, IMO
 
Hi All,

I am an Electrician with 15 years' experience of installation and testing; I have my 2391 and can call myself a competent person. I am planning to go self-employed and there are a couple of things I am unsure of as follows.

To carry our PIRs on domestic properties is it a requirement that I should be registered with one of the electrical body's?

Also if a customer asks for a consumer unit change but doesn't want to pay for a PIR for their domestic dwelling would I be breaking any rules by doing this?

Cheers
Si
Read Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide Number 1
https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100423440/Best-Practice-Guide-1-Issue-3-.pdf
 
As Pete suggests, read Best Practice Guide Number 1 in which section 6.2.1 and 6.2.2, which basically says that the customer should be encouraged to have an EICR undertaken, however if they refuse then a pre-work survey should be undertaken to ascertain if there are any immediate or potential dangers or if there's a condition that would cause unwanted tripping of the rcd in the existing installation affected by the change.
As other have said, in the real world, customers often don't wish to spend the money on the EICR and prefer to pay the minimum and just go for the board change.
I think it's a judgement call on the electrician and not the customer to ascertain whether or not an existing installation is 'up to' a simple board change or whether or not the installation requires extensive repair or replacement so in my opinion a thorough visual inspection and testing prior would be vital.
Interestingly, on one of my assessment a couple of years ago, the assessor asked me if I had copies of the EICRS carried out prior to the board changes that I'd undertaken and encouraged me to keep a record of them or any pre work surveys.
 
Referring to EICR's as PIR's simply suggests the person isn't up to date with the regs ............ they stopped being PIR's about 5 years ago
You dont need to be registered with a scheme to carry out EICRS no.

When you change a ccu you need to be sure that the circuits you are putting back into service are safe for continued use.... In my opinion an EICR is the only way this can truely be confirmed.
 
The main concerns when doing domestic CU changes our lack of or inadequate bonding, insulation faults and broken rings. All of these will cause an issue.
When you do site visit to quote, if there is apparently no visual issues, then ask customer if they mind you turning off the power as you need to perform some quick tests on thier wiring to confirm it can take the new board. They love this. It takes minutes for you, you know where you are with the job and it gives customers confidence that you know what you're doing. Bet your competition won't bother.

Turn off main switch and pick a socket on ring final. Do end to ends. If other rings, then do same. Then do global 250 IR L/N - E from any socket outlet. Off the back of this you can either go ahead with CU change or state with confidence what is required beforehand.
 
I did come badly unstuck on one CU change where very little pre-work checking was done. Although all looked reasonable from the outside there were multiple problems, including two drilled ring cables in the recently fitted kitchen, and multiple JB's under floors where the previous owner had installed spurs and simply cut off all the earths. Nightmare, 2 days were spent rectifying issues. An EICR carried out beforehand and I'd have said scrap it and rewire the lot. That is the only time there's been a major problem with the limited pre-work survey and extra cost caveat in the estimate though.
Last week I looked at a CU change request for an elderly couple who's son was concerned at their old CU...a quick inspection showed the entire place was in Aluminium T/E......no go advise issued, either rewire or leave well alone, they opted for the latter.
 
I too come under the auspices of the shitty Highland Council.

In SCOTLAND if your doing EICR’s in domestic properties you don’t need to be NICEIC/SELECT registered so long as you can prove competency. However if you are doing rented houses under the Scottish short form tenancy agreement you DO or you need a valid JIB card and jump though a load of hoops/paperwork. Look at the last Housing Act amendment.

In any event you’ll need suitable liability insurance and may find that the insurer requires you to register to ‘prove’ competency.

Regarding C.U. changes if it or any part requires a Building Warrant, or comes under parts of the Building Standards again you need registration or JIB to prove competency.

Hope that helps.
 

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