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Discuss Poor workmaship on a CH maintenance plan. in the Central Heating Systems area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. merlinradioltd
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    merlinradioltd Active EF Member

    Location:
    Central Scotland
    How about this as an example of trained Gas Safe staff...with 41 years experience as an electrical engineer and I am not allowed to work on MY gas boiler/CH system, (fair enough)...so I have a monthly contract with a large utility to maintain it....the programmer is U/S.....they eventually accept my diagnosis and replace with a newer model.Even that was like pulling teeth.

    They can't get it to fit the backplate and faff about for two hours....I get home to discover it is sitting on the tiles at an angle of 15 degrees and loose and flopping about...it is only making intermittent contact with the back plate and they have tried to force a fit, broken a tile and attempted a bodge using a torn up cardboard box from which the new programmer was transported in.....the final straw was when I heard a noise and looked round to see the installation booklet fall out of the hole in the tile as it had been folded up and used as a "shim" to get clearance between the wall plate and the connecting pins....:banghead:

    The same night I get a computer telephone customer satisfaction to complete...................
     
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  2. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    bet the survey didn't have the options you wanted to enter.LOL.
     
  3. merlinradioltd
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    merlinradioltd Active EF Member

    Location:
    Central Scotland
    toooooo truuue !.....astounded.....you couldn't make this stuff up !
     
  4. PC Electrics
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    PC Electrics Guest

    If it's in your own home which you own, there is no problem with you servicing your own boiler and ch system.

    It's doing it for others that's illegal.

    However, even Gas Safe put out the erroneous advice that it's illegal to work on your own system in an attempt to frighten you into using one of their members. A less synical person might think they do so to discourage those who think they are competent when they are not.
     
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  5. PC Electrics
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    PC Electrics Guest

    I've come across the "professionals" employed by that large utility many times. Sometimes had to pick up the pieces when they've failed to diagnose an electrical problem inside a boiler.

    Neither do they seem to have a clue what main protective bonding is.

    And don't get me started about them waving volt sticks about and proclaiming that the pipes are live!

    Wouldn't trust said utility to service a walking stick!
     
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  6. merlinradioltd
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    merlinradioltd Active EF Member

    Location:
    Central Scotland
    Very interesting.....each time they come, they faff about with a measuring tape to measure the edge of the balanced flue with the end of the building, prattle on about not to current standard blah blah but STILL OK....tripe...It's my own house, bought it 25 years ago...they "fortunately" have NEVER made a profit out of me as they just change parts to get to where they want....new pump, motorised valve and stat and it was the programmer all the time....they replaced the motorised valve head for the 3rd time and the programmer for the 2nd time and it left it hanging like a pound of mince......I will screw them one more time and then cancel the contract and do it myself in future. I wouldn't let them take my dog for a walk....last time a young lad couldn't use a Fluke mutimeter, I had to TEACH HIM..! I have an entry on their laptop...DO NOT EVER TRY TO SELL ME A NEW BOILER!......in fact when this crowd turn up I have the parts list and availability on my own laptop.....can't get Gloworm parts sir....
     
  7. Geordie Spark
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    Geordie Spark Trusted Advisor

    I was once looking at a used car on a used car dealer's forecourt when I was accosted by the salesman. To cut a long story short, I ended- up at his house to fix his boiler that British Grasp said parts were no longer available for & they quoted him something like £4k to supply & a replacement.

    Next day I went to my supplier & bought the "unavailable" part for about £7, fitted it & made his boiler work & it's still working to this day !!

    I charged him £70 ... and no ... I didn't buy the car from him !!
     
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  8. GT1
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    GT1 Guest

    I often see adverts for plumbers which will say "British Gas Trained"...

    Makes me smile every time...
     
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  9. PC Electrics
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    PC Electrics Guest

    I've had that too. Got a 75 yr old lady client out in one of the villages nearby. Calls me whenever she's got a problem 'cos she knows I'll always help. About Oct time last yr she called me in tears to say BG had condemned her boiler 'cos the flue was rusted through. Getting on for £3k quote for new one. Anyway, I put my plumber mate on the job. He bought a new flue, dismounted the boiler, replaced flue and remounted boiler. Whole job came to about £250. Now he does her servicing and she's passed his name to all her old dear friends.
     
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  10. Geordie Spark
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    Geordie Spark Trusted Advisor

    Yep .. me too.

    The very first time I did my ACS training & assessment (to work on gas) I was on the course with something like 20 other blokes some of whom were first-timers like me, and others including a couple of B G blokes were doing refreshers which we have to do every 5 years.

    On the day of the assessment which is in two parts - a practical & written - we all started just after 9am on the practical during which it transpired that one B G bloke couldn't get his head around how to use a tube cutter & another couldn't make a satisfactory soldered joint !!

    After a half hour or thereabouts lunch break we started the written part which is something like 300 questions of which ALL have to be answered correctly. That's right ... the pass mark is 100%

    The first bloke to finish did so at 4pm and I was the second finishing just after 4-10pm ........ I found out later that the B G bloke were still there at 8-00pm !!!

    Nuff sed.
     
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  11. chris murphy
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    chris murphy Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    LONDON


    "Hello merlinradioltd",


    I am a Heating Engineer - I realise that You have the Warranty Program / Breakdown Insurance because of the Gas Boiler and any problems within that - and that because I assume that You have the `Full Heating System` Option - You would obviously WANT the Providers `Engineer` to deal with issues with the Controls / in this case the Programmer.

    You obviously know that you could have dealt with the Electrical Programmer yourself.

    It really is `Bad News` that You have had an experience such as You described - From a `Tradesman` / Boiler Engineer / Gas Installer / Electrician [?] - what You described is Disgraceful and You should definitely Complain about it to the Warranty Provider.


    But just for the benefit of others reading your Post who are NOT Electricians or Heating Engineers - an Electrician can deal with the Wiring TO a Gas Appliance Terminal Block or any of the Electrical Controls / Wiring.

    What they cannot `Work` on / Dismantle / Repair Legally are the `Internal Components` in the Gas Appliance / Boiler - In Fact they cannot even remove ANY Item that would give access to the Combustion / Room Sealed section of the Gas Appliance - For example removing the Casing of a Room Sealed Appliance - without being Gas Safe Registered.


    Personally I do agree with the View that Electricians are often far more Qualified and `Expert` in Identifying Electrical Faults on a Gas Appliance - But the `Law` states that Persons Working on a Gas Appliance WILL be Gas Safe Registered.

    There is always the Risk that something may be Done / NOT Done which could cause the Gas Appliance to become Dangerous - something which may NOT be Obvious to those who are NOT `Trained` on the Methods / Safety of Gas Appliances.

    Just as there is also a Risk of People who are NOT Correctly Trained on Electrical Works causing Very Dangerous Situations - But it is perceived that Dangerous Gas Appliances can cause Deaths through Carbon Monoxide Poisoning - this is deemed to be more Dangerous than the Risk of Electrocution / Fire.


    Regards,


    Chris
     
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  12. chris murphy
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    chris murphy Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    LONDON

    "Hello PC Electrics",


    Please don`t be Offended by this:


    I am NOT writing this out of a `Jobsworth` Attitude OR any `Trade Preservation` motive - BUT what You Posted about carrying out Servicing of your own Gas Appliance / Heating Boiler is NOT Correct:


    The LEGAL stance on this is - IF You are `Competent` in ALL of the Aspects of Gas Safety and Utilisation that apply to Working on / Servicing a Gas Appliance then You can Legally do so - BUT - the Definition of `Competence` is that You will have undertaken and Passed the necessary Gas ACS Assessments - AND be Gas Safe Registered.


    IF a Person has NOT undertaken these relevant Gas ACS Assessments - the `CORE` GAS SAFETY - CCN1 - Which is VERY Detailed covering EVERY Aspect of Domestic Gas Safety being the FIRST Requirement - BEFORE any Appliance Assessments - there is NO CHANCE ON EARTH of someone being able to Argue / PROVE the point that they are `Competent` to Work on a Gas Appliance.

    In a Court Situation they would be `Exposed` as Totally Deficient in Knowledge of Gas Safety and Utilisation - In MINUTES - by just a few `Simple Questions` about Gas Safety and Utilisation - They would simply NOT know the Answers.


    This PROVING Competence is what ANY Person carrying out Work on a Gas Appliance who is NOT Qualified / Trained & Assessed AND Gas Safe Registered would NOT be able to do.


    Also imagine if the Gas Appliance caused Danger to the members of the Family because of something that occurred during this `Service your own Boiler` [or other Gas Appliance] situation !

    Although it does not bear thinking about a Death of a Family Member - and NO Amount of Money would compensate - obviously any Life Insurance / Health Insurance would be `Null and Void` because of this `DIY Gas Appliance Servicing`.

    In the event of the Gas Appliance causing Damage to the Home - AND possibly other Properties - OR Death or Injury to other People - Your Home Insurance would obviously be `Null and Void` !

    AND If any of those Situations occurred and was attended by any of the Gas Suppliers representatives / a Gas Safe Registered Engineer / Installer OR ANY of the Emergency Services - You would then be Prosecuted by the Health and Safety Executive - having been reported under the RIDDOR Process.


    Does ANYONE still think that You should attempt to Service your own Boiler / Gas Appliance ??


    Regards,


    Chris - Heating Engineer / Registered Gas Engineer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  13. chris murphy
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    chris murphy Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    LONDON


    "Hello Geordie Spark",


    So much for the Time Limits for the Gas ACS Assessments and Re-Assessments !

    Although it is a long time ago that I did My Gas ACS Initial Assessments I know that there Were / Are Time Limits for Every Written Section of the Theory ACS.

    I have recently completed My Gas ACS Re-Assessments AGAIN - as You mentioned We have to do these every 5 Years - there were the Time Limits Printed on the Folder Section Dividers - these were also TOLD to Us and were `Enforced` - Fairly Strictly.

    A couple of People who were slightly behind were Advised about the Approaching Time Limits - these People seemed to be Misinterpreting some of the Questions - which is easy to do !

    They were possibly just about 20 Minutes `Over` the Time constraints on the CCN1 `Core Gas Safety` - and from what I overheard this was mainly due to NOT Asking for clarification on some of the meanings of a few Questions - I think that they were probably too `Embarrassed` to speak up and Ask.

    Regarding Your example about the British Gas Operatives - It can only have been that British Gas decided to use the Assessment Provider where You took your assessments - And these People obviously received `Preferential Treatment` because of being `British Gas` !

    NO WAY would ANY of the Training and Assessment Providers / Colleges that I have ever attended allow People to `Go Over` the Time Limits by HOURS !

    I feel that the Time Limits are already VERY Generous - I would guess that for Gas Engineers / Gas Installers who are Experienced there is Well Enough Time allowed for the Written / Multichoice Papers.

    As You know British Gas usually Train and Assess `In House` / Their own Training and Assessment Facility - in fact they offer Training and Assessment to the Gas Industry / Gas Engineers / Installers.

    I wonder how `Impartial` the Assessment and Re-Assessment of British Gas Operatives is where this `British Gas Training and Assessment` is carried out `In House` / at a British Gas Facility ?

    I don`t mean to malign the Honesty of British Gas Assessors - But what happens IF a British Gas Operative `Fails` some of the Assessments / Re-Assessments - ?


    British Gas were Fined and had an Advert banned a couple of Years ago - where They seemed to be stating that anyone who was NOT a British Gas Engineer was a `Cowboy` / NOT `As Good` as a British gas Engineer !



    Regards,


    Chris
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  14. Geordie Spark
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    Geordie Spark Trusted Advisor

    The assessment centre that I referred to worked very closely with B G and it was apparent to me at least that there was some "preferential treatment" being given.

    Shortly after my experience there B G took them over & so it became a B G assessment centre.

    It has since closed down.

    The blokes were still there until 8-00 pm they were told to leave as the staff wanted to go home. This was told to me by one of the instructors who was there with them.

    As for me, my next assessment will be in 2013, but as I'm now retired I don't think I'll be bothering with it.
     
  15. chris murphy
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    chris murphy Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    LONDON
    "Hello Geordie Spark",


    Thanks for your reply.

    I was told that it was `Definite` in 2007 that the Gas ACS were going to be `Overhauled` during the following `One to Two Years` so that ONLY Regulations etc. that were Updated would have to be dealt with during future Re-Assessments.

    This obviously would NOT have been `Financially Viable` for the Training and Assessment Providers - who would probably have Threatened to Close Down their Businesses - So because this would then cause a Problem regarding the `Enforcement of Gas Safety` the Original ACS System / Re-Assessments have been left as they were !


    I was told this again recently - because People were Moaning about having to do the SAME Re-Assessments again as they carried out in 2007 - albeit I Personally had Different `Options` selected by the Assessors for the Appliances Categories - I still had to carry out Practical Tasks and Tests on EVERY Type of Appliance.

    As I am sure You know - We NOW need the CPA1 - Combustion Performance Analysis Assessment - before April 1st - OR Our Heating Boilers and Water Heaters [Now `CENWAT`] and Gas Fires [`HTRs`] Gas Safe Registration Categories WILL be Suspended !

    There is a great deal of Dissension about that - although it has been `Advertised` by Gas Safe and the CITB / other Training and Assessment Providers for well over a Year now to My certain knowledge.

    People who have Expiry Dates for these Categories - perhaps like Yourself ? - are stating that this `New Legislation` should NOT Terminate those Expiry Dates - which they have taken Assessments on and Paid for.


    Good to hear from You.


    Regards,


    Chris
     
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