Price check please, NI sparks in particular.

[Phil Thompson]

Well it didn't as they decided against it for now. I only just got my initial verification passed on Friday there. Start the periodic this Friday. So if they require it later I hopefully should be able to do myself.

 

[bigspark17]

Unless its diferent in NI, you dont need to do 2395 to be able to do eicr just competant & have correct insurance in place.
You should be doing an eicr pre doing all this work not after. & issuing a new EIC refrenced to the eicr for any new work. What are you doing regarding part p notification?
Do you work for yourself or is this a "on the side job"?

 

[Phil Thompson]

No part P or domestic installer schemes in NI.

 

[MJPD29]

I also live in NI and I have suffered the same fate doing a lot of work for someone with several added extras that they must imagine are done for free or I magically pulled them from between my cheeks in an hour. Price is defiantly fair and extras have been done cheap for them, I'd say mark up materials quite a bit on itemized bill and if not small claims court. Do people realise that you have to make a living also

 

[Phil Thompson]

Unless its diferent in NI, you dont need to do 2395 to be able to do eicr just competant & have correct insurance in place.
You should be doing an eicr pre doing all this work not after. & issuing a new EIC refrenced to the eicr for any new work. What are you doing regarding part p notification?
Do you work for yourself or is this a "on the side job"?

Double checked this today and as far as I am able to ascertain via college lecturer and online, there is no LABC notification to be completed in NI.

As for the EICR, 1 would be issued, and if and codes those would be addressed and then a new eicr given with no codes on it. Or at least no C1&2 codes on it.

EIC is for new installations or new circuits only as far as I've been instructed anyways.

 

[bigspark17]

No you defo need to do an EIC for a cu change!

 

[Risteard]

As for the EICR, 1 would be issued, and if and codes those would be addressed and then a new eicr given with no codes on it. Or at least no C1&2 codes on it.

EIC is for new installations or new circuits only as far as I've been instructed anyways.

An Electrical Installation Certificate is for any new electrical installation work. This isn't necessarily an entire electrical installation or new circuits, it can be minor works (although a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate might be more appropriate for a single circuit modified). I would issue an EIC for remedial works carried out presuming that multiple circuits were involved in the remedial works. I certainly wouldn't reissue an EICR with codes removed - the EICR they have will be one based on what I found at the time of the inspection. An EIC certifying remedial works should be all that is needed.

 

[Phil Thompson]

I will speak to the lecturer again and clarify, but he definitely stated EIC for new installations or new circuits and EICR for a board change.

As you are reporting on the condition of the installation, coding for any issues and if remedied then rectifying and reissue a clear EICR without any codes.

That was what I was also led to believe by the guy who was going to do the EICR initially, and he just does inspection & testing on a daily basis, hasn't worked the tools in years, he does it for a firm that does all the colleges in the country. Though he has pulled the use of escos between meter and CCU, stating that once the main isolator is off those are still live.

That's how he does any for the fella I used to work to before starting on my own.

But will definitely check it out further.

 

[Flanders]

As others have said you need to issue an eic for a consumer change you can not put circuit into service if there are issues with them , so for example
There is a cable hanging out of wall with live conducters exposed, you change the consumer unit and then you have effectively made that unsafe cable live and created the danger ,
You should of done a eicr first or a least some basic inspection like check bonding ,insulation resistance , cpc continuity and any damaged accessories before you change the consumer unit

 

[Risteard]

As you are reporting on the condition of the installation, coding for any issues and if remedied then rectifying and reissue a clear EICR without any codes.

This is where the issue is. If you have rectified an issue then you need to certify the work you have done (i.e. the remedial work). A Report is just that - a report on the condition of the installation and therefore will not certify the work that you have done and therefore is not the correct document for that.

So if I had an EICR from a periodic inspection of an installation (whether produced by me or someone else) and I was then asked to carry out the remedial works I would issue a certificate for the remedial works. I would not reissue an EICR with the codes removed. The certificate will confirm that the remedial works comply with BS7671 (and therefore show that these parts of the installation are now safe).

 

[Phil Thompson]

see his view when I asked the question today was this

You're requested to replace a consumer unit. In an operational domestic property, to improve safety.

You're not getting paid to come in and do an eicr first.
You are there to do the board change and then provide an eicr to state the reason for producing report as "Due to CCU being updated to current standard."
List any limitations. Which there may be in an existing property, and code any issues. Do all your dead tests and live tests. And at the same time your visual inspection. Broken screw on a socket, cracked faceplate, insufficient csa of a services earth. Code them. Then if the client wishes to have the remedial work carried out then you do an MWC, but you should redo the report as well to show it clear for whatever purpose it has been requested. Generally insurance companies.

He stated numerous times throughout the course today, you can only recommend you can't enforce. If you believe something is seriously dangerous you can only try and implore the client & report it to the HSE if they ignore your advice.

Also an EICR is not as important as an EIC, and that an EIC is for new installations or new circuits, and that you are inferring that they meet all BS7671 current standards of installation and have been inspected at all steps of the installation. Which you can't guarantee in a consumer unit change as you're only seeing connections to the equipment in the installation.
Also you should have no limitations in a new install. Which there can be in an existing building.

There's zero places on an EIC to mention any limitations, which is 1 of the reasons his explanation made sense. Along with the fact you can't state installation method meets BS7671 if you couldn't inspect it along the way.

And without damaging the fabric of the installation or removing kitchen units or appliances which can be on many limitations you cannot prove they do.
You can only report on the condition of the installation based on test results on the day and a visual inspection and code any issues if there are any.

I'm lost now lol as his explanation did make sense if you can follow my poor description of what he said.

But basically he said as you are not altering any circuits in the installation it wasn't an EIC, and that effectively a CCU was equipment but as it was such a major piece of equipment was not suitable for a MWC, and therefore you do an EICR.

 

[Phil Thompson]

see his view when I asked the question today was this

You're requested to replace a consumer unit. In an operational domestic property, to improve safety.

You're not getting paid to come in and do an eicr first.
You do the board change and an eicr to state the reason for producing report as "Due to CCU being updated to current standard."
List any limitations. Which there may be in an existing property, and code any issues. Do all your dead tests and live tests. And at the same time your visual inspection. Broken screw on a socket, cracked faceplate, insufficient csa of a services earth. Code them. Then if the client wishes to have the remedial work carried out then you do an MWC, but you should redo the report as well to show it clear for whatever purpose it has been requested. Generally insurance companies.

He stated numerous times throughout the course today, you can only recommend you can't enforce. If you believe something is seriously dangerous you can only try and implore the client & report it to the HSE if they ignore your advice.

Also an EICR is not as important as an EIC, and that an EIC is for new installations or new circuits, and that you are inferring that they meet all BS7671 current standards of installation and have been inspected at all steps of the installation. Which you can't guarantee in a consumer unit change as you're only seeing connections to the equipment in the installation.
Also you should have no limitations in a new install. Which there can be in an existing building.

There's zero places on an EIC to mention any limitations, which is 1 of the reasons his explanation made sense. Along with the fact you can't state installation method meets BS7671 if you couldn't inspect it along the way.

And without damaging the fabric of the installation or removing kitchen units or appliances which can be on many limitations you cannot prove they do.
You can only report on the condition of the installation based on test results on the day and a visual inspection and code any issues if there are any.

I'm lost now lol as his explanation did make sense if you can follow my poor description of what he said.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Also his explanation was that the tick list and test results would certify the change of CCU.

 

[Phil Thompson]

But hey. I'm only getting into this as I'm now working on my own and want to do it right. Hence doing the initial verification course and now the periodic. So am open for any advice. Hence why I checked with the tutor today and will have him double check.

As I will be using the reasons given here to do so lol

 

[Risteard]

OK, didn't realise we were talking about the replacement of a DB. I thought you were referring to remedial works to an installation.

For the replacement of a DB you must issue an EIC. This certificate in no way relates to the existing installation (except for the comments on existing installation section). Your EIC solely relates to the replacement of the DB. You are verifying that ADS will operate for the circuits you are connecting (to ensure that your DB installation is safe) but you are not certifying the existing installation. You won't be verifying cables being installed in prescribed zones, etc. unless you have installed any cables. So this would be N/A. Your schedule of inspections is again only relating to your installation of the DB as confirmed by your extent of works section.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Thanks for that Risteard, I assume that's how niceic require it to be done?

Though I was thinking of doing stroma if I do join a CPS but will decide later in the year or during 2018 what way to go.

 

[123]

What would Stroma do for you in Northern Ireland? Napit used to be required for B&Q Kitchen's, but pretty sure that's NICEIC now. AFAIK Ikea also requires NICEIC.

NICEIC Approved Contractor is the main one, it'll allow you to undertake work for Councils and the Housing Executive.

There is ECA and JIB but this are for bigger firms than one man bands.

 

[Phil Thompson]

So are there actually any benefits from being in Niceic?

Is there actually any benefits for being in a cps in NI? Apart from being eligible to do that stuff mentioned above if in the niceic?

 

[123]

Any of the part p crowd like Stroma, Napit etc etc is of no use at all.

The only one I'd consider looking at is NICEIC Approved Contractor. I'm not with them, but in Northern Ireland for a one man band it's either them or none.
If no one is specifying it, and you're not losing any work from not being registered I wouldn't bother.

I lose about 2-3 small extensions a year and the odd entertainment licence (basically an EICR for a Pub)

 

[Phil Thompson]

So only need stroma if we end up getting part p then?

Are the extensions and entertainment licence jobs only accepting Niceic?

Is it the same on the mainland? Or do we just get ridden by the niceic monopoly?

Have you been asked to join this SparkSafe thing the ETT are trying to push?