Quality work by a electrical trainee.....

[SparkyChick]

@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...

Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?

This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?

 

[Octopus]

The schemes need to see more evidence of installation work before they let people "in" imho

The UK has an awful history of not training people, then we all complain ............ we can't have it both ways ............

Companies with over 10 sparks need to offer apprenticeships ..........

 

[SparkyChick]

The schemes need to see more evidence of installation work before they let people "in" imho

The UK has an awful history of not training people, then we all complain ............ we can't have it both ways ............

Companies with over 10 sparks need to offer apprenticeships ..........

The problem with that, particularly for people like me who wanted to go self-employed is it's tricky because jobs worthy of being inspected are normally ones that require notification (I know that's not always the case).

Perhaps a better approach is more frequent assessments in the first couple of years?

 

[Toneyz]

Not disputing the workmanship at all as its atrocious but was it defiantly a electrical trainee who done this work, I know they can become easy targets.

I just cant imagine someone turning up to a re-wire a house and admitting they have 4 weeks of training and 3 of them was in the classroom.

How come its 4 weeks now 5 was not enough.

 

[Toneyz]

Perhaps a better approach is more frequent assessments in the first couple of years?

If they did it would be better to see a job in progress.

 

[Pete999]

How come its 4 weeks now 5 was not enough.

Overtime at School

 

[Toneyz]

Companies with over 10 sparks need to offer apprenticeships ..........

The problem is that companies are reluctant to have an apprenticeship program once the companies considered apprentices an investment for the future as older electricians retire new blood took over and once apprentices came out of their time they stayed with the company and the company would have got their investment back. Now, this does not happen.

 

[Octopus]

The problem is that companies are reluctant to have an apprenticeship program once the companies considered apprentices an investment for the future as older electricians retire new blood took over and once apprentices came out of their time they stayed with the company and the company would have got their investment back. Now, this does not happen.

Because they leave?

 

[Pete999]

The problem is that companies are reluctant to have an apprenticeship program once the companies considered apprentices an investment for the future as older electricians retire new blood took over and once apprentices came out of their time they stayed with the company and the company would have got their investment back. Now, this does not happen.

I'm out of breath reading that Ant

 

[Octopus]

Because they leave?

So employers have 2 choices - pay them more when they complete their time OR place golden handcuffs on them as part of the apprenticeship so they have to pay back money if they leave

Its daft ................. either way

 

[Toneyz]

I'm out of breath reading that Ant

Well at least you lasted the distance Pete.

 

[JAWS]

Same with most things in life really where they are normally only bought to the attention when things are bad just like the photos in the first post.
Very rare will an electrican post a pic of an install with the heading "look at this lovely piece of tidy work I see on a job today"

 

[Pete999]

Well at least you lasted the distance Pete.

I did, Mate.

 

[JK-Electrical]

For as long as we have tight-fisted, short-sighted employers who perceive apprentices as a cost rather than an investment, then I'm afraid we are never going to get to the root of the problem. What a sad day it is when the industry has to resort to imported labour and Electrical Trainee courses to address the issue of skill shortages within the industry. I don't care what anyone says, it just isn't possible to become an electrician in five weeks. If it is, then why are apprentices still having to go through years of training? This makes no sense at all. I'm totally against these short courses. Granted, this route has worked for SC and she has turned-out to be a first-class electrician and a shining example to those seeking to enter our the trade, however, she is very much the exception rather than the rule.

My apprentice is in the first year of his training. He's an adult apprentice who has just turned 30. He wanted to become an electrician when he was 16, but couldn't find a single company in the Glasgow area who were willing to offer him an apprenticeship. What a sad state of affairs. So instead, he trained as a painter and decorator (he at least had the sense not to become a wetpants ). He decided last year that it was very much a case of now or never if he was to realise his dream of becoming an electrician. So he started contacting electrical contracting businesses in Glasgow. I was impressed with his ambition and determination and offered him a work trial. That was a year ago. He's been with me since then, initially as a CIS contractor, and as a registered bona-fide apprentice since August. I see him as an investment, not a cost.

My apprentice is happy to pay his dues, so to speak, and complete a three-year apprenticeship that will allow him to gain the knowledge and skills that he needs to become a qualified electrician. He's happy to initially work for £10.08 an hour because he knows that in three years from now the sacrifice he is now making will eventually reap big rewards. So, if a 30 year-old married man with 3 kids to support can sustain himself and his family for the duration of an adult apprenticeship lasting three years, then so too can all the people with £££ signs in their eyes who sign-up for Electrical Trainee courses with the aim of becoming 'electricians' in five weeks so that they can then enter the electrical contracting industry and make ---- loads of money.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

@Deuce , @gazdkw82 and @Pete999 ...

Based on the fact you're all saying short coursers lacking sufficient practical experience and knowledge, is it entirely inconceivable for you that some may have sufficient practical experience and knowledge before they go that route?

This is often something that's stated... insufficient practical skills and experience... so what practical skills and experience do you believe are required?

I am a short courser too but did 6 years with a company with no official apprenticeship. Then after my quals went self employed. Been that way since.
The trouble is these courses don't offer the practical practice required etc.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

I am a short courser too but did 6 years with a company with no official apprenticeship. Then after my quals went self employed. Been that way since.
The trouble is these courses don't offer the practical practice required etc.

Thing is with my limited (I think 6 years is a bit limited) experience with a few short course I could Do anything by myself.. I found that weird and I'll admit slightly nerving at the time. But to this date not one error has been reported (maybe they died so couldnt contact me ).

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I thought you guys may be interested in these pics from a "spark" who did one of these 4 week courses and went straight to self employed!

This was for a house Re-wire, I actually quoted for this job originally but the house owner chose this contractor instead, but then contacted me afterwards to take a look as they were concerned by the work completed.

When I walked in and saw the work, I was truly shocked, it was truly dangerous!
I contacted the Niceic for the homeowner who have now completely Re-wired the house with another contractor under the platinum guarantee.
Original "Spark" is no longer registered, so its good to see the Niceic do take action!

This was apparently a finished job which she has been paid in full for

Anyway have fun with these :

C/U was moved, so quite rightly a switch fuse was installed, not so sure on the insulation methods mind:
View attachment 45259

Urm...., oh and thats data going behind the C/U there...
View attachment 45256

Wet pants is always wrapping his pipes around my cables, I know I will wrap my spaghetti around his pipes..
View attachment 45254

Meter tails and more chased horizontally through wall, not in a safe zone..
View attachment 45255

Now what is that bare wire for, lets poke it back out of the box...
View attachment 45253

Expanding foam doesn't seem to be working at fixing the boxes..., oh and that damn bare wire again! and no grommet!
View attachment 45258

Well the expanding foam wasn't working, lets just leave them hanging...
View attachment 45252



View attachment 45261

Its all too much work chopping the boxes into the wall..
View attachment 45262

Wago boxes are over-rated...
View attachment 45257

This surely has to be up there with the worst?

Hi Matt.

Did you see my post yesterday? Just wondering how you new it was someone who did a Domestic Installers course?
Did you just assume this or did you find out somehow?
Cheers.

 

[Anthony S]

Domestic work as per usual, not many chancers can slip through the net and get work in the commercial and industrial game.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I am a short courser too but did 6 years with a company with no official apprenticeship. Then after my quals went self employed. Been that way since.
The trouble is these courses don't offer the practical practice required etc.

This discussion has come up so many times. I think there are some time served electricians who (rightly or wrongly) will not accept that some Domestic Installers are very good at there jobs.

My own experience is that the 6 month course I did had mature students (30+ years old). We had life experience, we genuinely wanted to be installers and to do a good job. I think some kids who have gone into it through the traditional route at 16 (when they may not really know what they want) and have been doing it for years may be bored with it and not put there heart into it, and therefore not do a high quality job.

Every single job I do I give my all and take pride in it, I really do. I go home and find my mind smiling at the neat and tidy (and safe) install. I'm not saying that can't happen with time served electricians but if I'd stayed in my bar job at the Colliford Tavern on Bodmin Moor from age 16 I'm not sure I'd still be polishing the glasses to quite the same shine!

Ps... I know there are some very experienced electricians on this site who still take a lot of pride in there work... not aimed at you guys.... or Sparky Chick

 

[Fitzy]

The problem with that, particularly for people like me who wanted to go self-employed is it's tricky because jobs worthy of being inspected are normally ones that require notification (I know that's not always the case).

Perhaps a better approach is more frequent assessments in the first couple of years?

I totally agree with you sparkychick, until you’ve gained at least 3+ years experience you need to have a minimum of 2 jobs inspected (after initial assessment) each year during your membership. If your membership is not continuous it starts again.