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TedM

What questions would you like to ask Gideon Richards - the Chairman of the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS) Steering Group?
 
Why is the loop hole for allowing none accredited companies to sell systems in place? None accredited also means none regulated and miss sold systems.

Will the MCS make an allowance for the small companies (less than 5 employees) regarding the requirements of MCS accreditation. Reduced paperwork for example without using costly third parties to produce copy cat manuals etc?
 
As per Markc Ditto :yesnod: oh perhaps one thing, could make arrangements with vatman so we can buy a 5% vat, yeah I know Im ****ing in the wind.:frown2:
 
Again along the same lines, reducing the financial and paperwork mountain for small bisinesses, especially if you are already on a comp persons scheme. Why do I need to hold a meeting with myself to pass a poxy audit!!!

Nailing shut loopholes which the larger companies exploit to a) avoid registering and b) save themselves a massive admin burden. MCS need to tighten up on what can and can not be done as there is too much disparity between auditors from the differing bodies.

Its soon going to be 2012....get the flippin SAP sorted out as we are technically working on 2005 figures!!!

£200+ per year to MCS for what???? surely more than just the right to install panels so the customer can get their FIT £££......Please get out there and do some public awareness adverising
 
Again along the same lines, reducing the financial and paperwork mountain for small bisinesses, especially if you are already on a comp persons scheme. Why do I need to hold a meeting with myself to pass a poxy audit!!!

Nailing shut loopholes which the larger companies exploit to a) avoid registering and b) save themselves a massive admin burden. MCS need to tighten up on what can and can not be done as there is too much disparity between auditors from the differing bodies.

Its soon going to be 2012....get the flippin SAP sorted out as we are technically working on 2005 figures!!!

£200+ per year to MCS for what???? surely more than just the right to install panels so the customer can get their FIT £££......Please get out there and do some public awareness adverising

Oh yer! Agree agree agree!
 
Yes close the loophole, anyone trading off the back of the FiT should be a member of REAL and MCS.

I disagree with the paperwork "burden" I think it is a good thing, ensures firms have a proper QMS system a la ISO 9001, but I do think some companies providing the copycat manuals should regulated and actually forced run training for their customers as well the the docs. I'm sure submitting a load of printed forms does not lead to full understanding of the processes and required procedures - effectively making the MCS process a little pointless due to cut and paste. probably not a popular view.

I'd also like to see the FiT held at the current rate for another 2 years and a huge goverment campaign to raise awareness amonst the general public.
 
Sorry for delay in getting back with the responses. I had these a while ago and simply forgot about them (too many things to do).

Anyway below are the questions and replies from Gideon Richards:

Q1. Are you happy with the cost of MCS registration?

Actually our (personal) feelings are that MCS should be tightened up and should cover also the installation side with some measure of minimum standards, it has the opportunity to be a proper certification, but it does appear to be lost in bureaucracy.

GR: MCS does cover both Installers Companies and Products. The Companies have to demonstrate to their Certification Body that they have the Competencies to install the system and they are witness assessed on an actual installation.


i can honestly say that the costs for me to get to the mcs stage are frightening , also all the jobs that appear round my area seem to be carried out by a well no gas company if they are a electricity provider and then fit panels to your roof are they on to a winner if this scheme was backed by the goverment

GR: MCS costs the Installer Company £110.00 per year for the MCS registration. There are many Certification Bodies out there so shopping around could provide you with a good deal. They all have to publish their prices. How much time and effort it takes to get yourself ready for the assessment will depend on the company’s current quality systems and as we have seen below can add real value to the business. I would say though that working with the Certification Body provides better results for your business. Also remember as I stated before on the podcast, that MCS does not expect a small company to have the same systems as a large one.


Im a 1 man band, and Im quite happy in principle with the set up costs, however its the associated registrations that get me.....Gemserve, REAL, and the way MCS is not combined with Part P. The speed at which the whole process crawls along is frustrating too.

GR: MCS is a Certification Scheme, which covers far more than Competent Persons – About Building Regulation Compliance. MCS Certification Bodies will use all the existing evidence provided during the assessment to demonstrate competence, that includes CPS for Part P. I would be interested to hear separately about the slow speed issue.

Paperwork, no problems with that either, because it has tightened up my business procedures and the manner in which I operate overall. I have applied the QMS to my whole business and not just the solar side. Customers are quite impressed that their money for deposits now bounces through a client account, I have a better relationship with suppliers, and my whole business presence has been lifted since passing the MCS assessment, with ease I may add. The only point I would like changing is the need to acknowledge the way a small company operates in relation to MCS i.e. Im not likely to have a meeting with myself or complete impartial audits by myself.

GR: This sounds like a real positive and I am really happy to hear this, it isn’t the first time I have heard this type of comment. In regards to your comments about the size of business, MCS is about to introduce a revision to the MCS001 documentation to support this.

Im not worried so much about cowboy installers, just the big nationals who bend the rules and get away with it.

GR: We are working on everyone complying with the rules. If you have factual evidence (i.e. that can be verified) we will be happy to look at it.


Q2. Why is the loop hole for allowing non-accredited companies to sell systems in place? Non-accredited also means non-regulated and miss sold systems.

GR: This is being addressed as I write. Watch out for announcements shortly!


Q3. Will the MCS make an allowance for the small companies (less than 5 employees) regarding the requirements of MCS accreditation. Reduced paperwork for example without using costly third parties to produce copy cat manuals etc?

GR: Please see my point above. I have seen some very good short QMS systems for small companies that do the job very well. Don’t underestimate your own ability to do the set up. Also the MCS001 amendments should also help. Remember you are structuring what you do, not how you believe we think you should do it. Everyone has to have systems in place, the detail is down to the size of the business.


Q4. Again along the same lines, reducing the financial and paperwork mountain for small bisinesses, especially if you are already on a comp persons scheme. Why do I need to hold a meeting with myself to pass a poxy audit!!!

GR: I think you probably have a meeting with yourself every morning when you consider what you are going to do today. The MCS001 is being revised to reflect these types of issues for small companies. As for Competent Persons, please see my comments above.


Q5. Nailing shut loopholes which the larger companies exploit to a) avoid registering and b) save themselves a massive admin burden. MCS need to tighten up on what can and can not be done as there is too much disparity between auditors from the differing bodies.

GR: Loopholes are being shut as I have said. As for disparity between auditors, please provide factual evidence! All the auditors work under the International standards and the scheme documents, so there should be little disparity.


Q6. Its soon going to be 2012....get the flippin SAP sorted out as we are technically working on 2005 figures!!!

GR: SAP 2009 is now out and the standards are being amended to reflect that. MCS does not deal with SAP, however, the new Microgeneration Strategy workstreams has one specifically on that. Talk to your Trade Association (if you have one) to engage in the process.


Q7. £200+ per year to MCS for what???? surely more than just the right to install panels so the customer can get their FIT £££......Please get out there and do some public awareness advertising.

GR: £200+ What is this figure MCS is charging £110.00 to register and yes we are in the process of doing more market awareness.


Q8. Yes close the loophole, anyone trading off the back of the FiT should be a member of REAL and MCS.

GR: As stated, this is being dealt with.


Q9. I disagree with the paperwork "burden" I think it is a good thing, ensures firms have a proper QMS system a la ISO 9001, but I do think some companies providing the copycat manuals should regulated and actually forced run training for their customers as well the the docs. I'm sure submitting a load of printed forms does not lead to full understanding of the processes and required procedures - effectively making the MCS process a little pointless due to cut and paste. probably not a popular view.

GR: Thank you for this comment, I will consider this carefully. Good Feedback!


Q10. I'd also like to see the FiT held at the current rate for another 2 years and a huge goverment campaign to raise awareness amonst the general public.

GR: Unfortunately Government is strapped for Cash at present so the 2 years is unlikely to happen. As for campaigns there is a lot of work within the industry working on how we do this and MCS will play its part as well.

I hope this helps.


Regards

Gideon Richards
Interim CEO MCS
 
Some good answers there and they quite rightly reflect the point that the Awarding bodies NIC, NAPIT, ELECSA etc are applying their own standards to the process. An MCS QMS Manual should reflect how you cover the applicable clauses as a company and you should be assessed against what you say is how you meet the standard required. e.g. I was asked about my quarantine area.......my MCS manual states I do not have one, however defecticve items are clearly marked with pre-printed "DO NOT USE" packing tape.......took a little arguing, but I eventually got my point over.
 
It's quite refreshing to see that small businesses are possibly going to have a little leeway. I must admit that I constantly feel the pressure to conform to my QMS which was originally created for a large company and altered for our own tiny company.

I don't know about everyone else but I reckon we need to change almost everything we originally had in our QMS to make it more applicable to what we now understand better are our operationl needs. I have a week without intalls next week before a mad rush and I think I'll be completely revmping everything that we currently use to make it more applicable to everyday operations.

Thanks to Ted and the answers from Gideon Richards I feel this is less likely to be an issue when our MCS visit comes round.
 
Its not so much easing the burden, but allowing the QMS to fit the specific company dynamics e.g. I currently have to hold a meeting with myself to apease the audit, bit daft I know but I have to fabricate this evidence to satisfy the auditor. What I should be able to do is conduct an internal review. I fully support the need for majority of the paperwork and have rolled it out to the remainder of the business. If I was to be hit by the No21 bus tomorrow, I know all of my customers are protected and when my wife has to pick up the pieces my business is straight.
 

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