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Discuss Radial or spur off of ring in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Shpark
    Offline

    Shpark EF Member

    Location:
    Chester
    Hi guys,

    Just an initial heads up, I’m just level 2 qualified, so go easy on me.

    I’m currently adding some sockets in my house. So I thought I’d break the ring, extend it and add them in.
    Took the back off a socket and it only had one cable going into it, so presumed it was a radial. I’ve gone back to the board and there’s only 2 32A MCB’s. One ring up stairs and 1 down. So presumably these 2 sockets are a poor designed spur off the downstairs ring, not meeting regs.

    It’s obviously not well rated incase it exceeds the 26A of the cable having 2 double sockets, so I need to make it safer somehow.

    My initial thinking was to put in a fused spur to protect the cable, but one of the sockets is used with a kettle, so a bit more load and it’ll overload the 13A fuse.

    So, could I make it so there’s like a garage board hidden away with a 20A MCB at the beginning of the spur and make it into a sort of radial off of the ring?

    Cheers in advance for replies
     
  2. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    The socket you described as against the Regs, could be a single spur from 1 of the RFCs nothing wrong with that.
    Your copy of BS7671 Appendix 15 will describe standard circuitry for socket outlets take a look and think again.
     
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  3. wirepuller
    Offline

    wirepuller Forum Mentor

    Location:
    south uk
    No. A 20a OCPD protecting a radial off a ring will not prevent excessive loading at a single point on the ring. That's why radials connected off a ring require a 13a fuse
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Wilko
    Online

    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi - Without rejigging, a fused spur is your best approach. The fuse will tolerate short duration loads in excess of 13A, check the graphs you're worried.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Shpark
    Offline

    Shpark EF Member

    Location:
    Chester
    So my best option would be to be in a 13A fused spur or run it back and make it into a 20A radial at the board?
     
  6. telectrix
    Online

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Respected Member

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    difficult to asses without being there. you're not far from me. i could pop round some time to advise.
     
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  7. Dave OCD
    Offline

    Dave OCD Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    I think you may be describing 1 double socket as 2 outlets, if so there's no need to worry as you can have one single or double socket spurred from any part of the ring circuit. Of course if you wanted to run additional sockets from this point you'd have to fit a 13a fused spur before the first existing socket. But in certain circumstances I've been known to use a 16a MCB in a small 2 module enclosure. :)
     
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  8. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    which is NOT recommended.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Dave OCD
    Offline

    Dave OCD Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    I didn't say I recommended it. :)
     
  10. David. B
    Offline

    David. B EF Member

    Location:
    Liverpool
    I agree with daveOCD in part mate I think your describing 1 double socket as 2 sockets but its OK to spur yo a double the reason I think that is in your description you only mention opening 1 socket up assuming you fint have a test kit which most trainees don't let's face it. what I would do is open up all the sockets local yo it including above on the other floor. Find the one with three cables in. Isolate the system. Separate the cable ends re energise the circuit inform people first then go and see how many double sockets are dead if its just 1 then don't worry but if its two dead then you will need to sort it like Murdoch said. Hope that helps mate I'd I were you I'd get telectric to come have a look offer him a days labour on return ypu will learn
     
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  11. ipf
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    ipf Forum Mentor

    Not advisable to get advice from donkeys or bums .......but Tel's OK! ;)
     
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  12. David. B
    Offline

    David. B EF Member

    Location:
    Liverpool
    So long as your not aiming it at me bro
     
  13. wirepuller
    Offline

    wirepuller Forum Mentor

    Location:
    south uk
    The OP clearly states two double sockets
     
  14. Dave OCD
    Offline

    Dave OCD Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    It wasn't that clear to me.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. David. B
    Offline

    David. B EF Member

    Location:
    Liverpool
    Nor me to be honest what's everyone's problem on here
     
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