Radial or spur off of ring

[Shpark]

Hi guys,

Just an initial heads up, I’m just level 2 qualified, so go easy on me.

I’m currently adding some sockets in my house. So I thought I’d break the ring, extend it and add them in.
Took the back off a socket and it only had one cable going into it, so presumed it was a radial. I’ve gone back to the board and there’s only 2 32A MCB’s. One ring up stairs and 1 down. So presumably these 2 sockets are a poor designed spur off the downstairs ring, not meeting regs.

It’s obviously not well rated incase it exceeds the 26A of the cable having 2 double sockets, so I need to make it safer somehow.

My initial thinking was to put in a fused spur to protect the cable, but one of the sockets is used with a kettle, so a bit more load and it’ll overload the 13A fuse.

So, could I make it so there’s like a garage board hidden away with a 20A MCB at the beginning of the spur and make it into a sort of radial off of the ring?

Cheers in advance for replies

 

[Pete999]

Hi guys,

Just an initial heads up, I’m just level 2 qualified, so go easy on me.

I’m currently adding some sockets in my house. So I thought I’d break the ring, extend it and add them in.
Took the back off a socket and it only had one cable going into it, so presumed it was a radial. I’ve gone back to the board and there’s only 2 32A MCB’s. One ring up stairs and 1 down. So presumably these 2 sockets are a poor designed spur off the downstairs ring, not meeting regs.

It’s obviously not well rated incase it exceeds the 26A of the cable having 2 double sockets, so I need to make it safer somehow.

My initial thinking was to put in a fused spur to protect the cable, but one of the sockets is used with a kettle, so a bit more load and it’ll overload the 13A fuse.

So, could I make it so there’s like a garage board hidden away with a 20A MCB at the beginning of the spur and make it into a sort of radial off of the ring?

Cheers in advance for replies

The socket you described as against the Regs, could be a single spur from 1 of the RFCs nothing wrong with that.
Your copy of BS7671 Appendix 15 will describe standard circuitry for socket outlets take a look and think again.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

No. A 20a OCPD protecting a radial off a ring will not prevent excessive loading at a single point on the ring. That's why radials connected off a ring require a 13a fuse

 

[Wilko]

Hi - Without rejigging, a fused spur is your best approach. The fuse will tolerate short duration loads in excess of 13A, check the graphs you're worried.

 

[Shpark]

So my best option would be to be in a 13A fused spur or run it back and make it into a 20A radial at the board?

 

[telectrix]

difficult to asses without being there. you're not far from me. i could pop round some time to advise.

 

[Dave OCD]

Hi guys,

Just an initial heads up, I’m just level 2 qualified, so go easy on me.

I’m currently adding some sockets in my house. So I thought I’d break the ring, extend it and add them in.
Took the back off a socket and it only had one cable going into it, so presumed it was a radial. I’ve gone back to the board and there’s only 2 32A MCB’s. One ring up stairs and 1 down. So presumably these 2 sockets are a poor designed spur off the downstairs ring, not meeting regs.

It’s obviously not well rated incase it exceeds the 26A of the cable having 2 double sockets, so I need to make it safer somehow.

My initial thinking was to put in a fused spur to protect the cable, but one of the sockets is used with a kettle, so a bit more load and it’ll overload the 13A fuse.

So, could I make it so there’s like a garage board hidden away with a 20A MCB at the beginning of the spur and make it into a sort of radial off of the ring?

Cheers in advance for replies

I think you may be describing 1 double socket as 2 outlets, if so there's no need to worry as you can have one single or double socket spurred from any part of the ring circuit. Of course if you wanted to run additional sockets from this point you'd have to fit a 13a fused spur before the first existing socket. But in certain circumstances I've been known to use a 16a MCB in a small 2 module enclosure.

 

[Octopus]

But in certain circumstances I've been known to use a 16a MCB in a small 2 module enclosure.

which is NOT recommended.

 

[Dave OCD]

I didn't say I recommended it.

 

[David. B]

I agree with daveOCD in part mate I think your describing 1 double socket as 2 sockets but its OK to spur yo a double the reason I think that is in your description you only mention opening 1 socket up assuming you fint have a test kit which most trainees don't let's face it. what I would do is open up all the sockets local yo it including above on the other floor. Find the one with three cables in. Isolate the system. Separate the cable ends re energise the circuit inform people first then go and see how many double sockets are dead if its just 1 then don't worry but if its two dead then you will need to sort it like Murdoch said. Hope that helps mate I'd I were you I'd get telectric to come have a look offer him a days labour on return ypu will learn

 

[ipf]

difficult to asses without being there. you're not far from me. i could pop round some time to advise.

Not advisable to get advice from donkeys or bums .......but Tel's OK!

 

[David. B]

Not advisable to get advice from donkeys or bums .......but Tel's OK!

So long as your not aiming it at me bro

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The OP clearly states two double sockets

 

[Dave OCD]

It wasn't that clear to me.

 

[David. B]

Nor me to be honest what's everyone's problem on here

 

[DPG]

Agree - the original post is not at all clearly worded.

 

[Des 56]

Took the back off a socket and it only had one cable going into it, so presumed it was a radial.


So presumably these 2 sockets are a poor designed spur off the downstairs ring

It’s obviously not well rated incase it exceeds the 26A of the cable having 2 double sockets

one of the sockets is used with a kettle





Breaking the post down and noting the important words for each sentence we have

A socket
One cable
2 sockets
2 double sockets
One of "THE" sockets

OK that seems to have cleared it up for me
At least I think its clear

 

[Shpark]

Arguing over small details when I’d rather have a solution. To clear it up...hopefully. I have a spur off of the ring coming from a junction box. This spur has 2 double sockets on it (non-compliant)

 

[DPG]

Thanks for clarifying. Important to have all the information.

 

[telectrix]

Arguing over small details when I’d rather have a solution. To clear it up...hopefully. I have a spur off of the ring coming from a junction box. This spur has 2 double sockets on it (non-compliant)

so you have the choice of 2 options:

1. recable to the spurred sockets with 2.5mm and to any new sockets reinstate rthe ring.

2. fit a FCU at the start of the spur.