Discuss RCD on bathroom lighting in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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The General

Okay, I'm preparing to open myself up to some abuse here, but I have had a good read of the BGB before I posted this and I just want to make sure I had things right as I think the regs are perhaps open to interpretation.

I've just done a bathroom makeover with a plumber mate which involved (amongst other things) replacing the existing single light fitting with some new LED downlighters. House is TT with old wylex re-wireable fuses and an old voltage trip upfront of all of it.

Now, what I've done is to put the lighting feed on an RCD fused spur after it leaves the C/Unit, but it just got me to thinking....

When I read 701.32.1 'General' it says that "When applying this section, the zones specified in 701.32.2 to 4 shall be taken into account...."

So.... if the ceiling is above 2.25m or outside the zones, then that means that things like downlighters are not in the location containing the bath or shower and therefore the requirements for additional protection by RCD (701.411.3.3) are not needed?

Have I read this right? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?!

In this instance I needed the RCD for other reasons anyway, but had I just been doing the lights, would it have been okay to simply replace the old fitting with the new downlights?

Thanks for your advice guys/gals.
 
"When applying this section the zones shall be taken into account" means that the specific requirements for equipment in zones shall be applied where necessary.

701.411.3.3 should be read to mean what it says. RCD protection for all final circuits in a location containing a bath or a shower.

If the lights were outside of the zone, you could fit lights that were not IP rated to IPX4, but they would still have to be RCD protected. I would fit bathroom suitable downlights above a bath or a shower in all occasions though regardless of height.
 
"When applying this section the zones shall be taken into account" means that the specific requirements for equipment in zones shall be applied where necessary.

701.411.3.3 should be read to mean what it says. RCD protection for all final circuits in a location containing a bath or a shower.

If the lights were outside of the zone, you could fit lights that were not IP rated to IPX4, but they would still have to be RCD protected. I would fit bathroom suitable downlights above a bath or a shower in all occasions though regardless of height.

Thanks Andy - I don't disagree with any of your comments! This is exactly what I've done, but it just got me thinking.....
Thanks for your thoughts.
 
I have also read this regulation as meaning 'everywhere' in the bath/shower room needs to have RCD preotection.

701.1 "The particular requirements of this section apply to the electrical installations in locations containing a fixed bath or shower AND to the surrounding zones...."
 
I've seen an increase in the poor electrical installations in bathrooms since, dare I say this, since the rules for notifications in bathrooms were changed.

BS 7671 should be clearer on this point - and state that any electrical circuit "serving a bathroom" must be RCD protected and then expand to cover the lights, even if they are in the ceiling space.
 
No debate in my eyes.
The lights are in the room, they are below the ceiling to some extent. The room is the special location. The special location has to have RCD protection for all low voltage circuits regardless of whether they are in zones or not.
 
BS 7671 should be clearer on this point - and state that any electrical circuit "serving a bathroom" must be RCD protected and then expand to cover the lights, even if they are in the ceiling space.

You had your chance earlier this year! :)

Hum... and this is the debate!

My view is that change lights that illuminate the bathroom, then RCD protection required.

JMO

Part of the equipment is within the bathroom, so I concur.
 
When I read 701.32.1 'General' it says that "When applying this section, the zones specified in 701.32.2 to 4 shall be taken into account...."

So.... if the ceiling is above 2.25m or outside the zones, then that means that things like downlighters are not in the location containing the bath or shower and therefore the requirements for additional protection by RCD (701.411.3.3) are not needed?

Have I read this right? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?!

In this instance I needed the RCD for other reasons anyway, but had I just been doing the lights, would it have been okay to simply replace the old fitting with the new downlights?

Thanks for your advice guys/gals.[/QUOTE]
The 2nd paragraph says they are outside the zone surely
 
That was kinda what got me thinking ;-)
Technically, the downlighters and all electrical connections are actually in the loft.......

I think we can always play around with words General to suit our arguments. I suppose we could say that you could have a push light switch on the wall of the bathroom as the actual electrics will be in the wall, not in the bathroom.

I think sometimes you have to just think about what is the right way to do it.... A bathroom is full of steam, we are soaking wet... we need an RCD.
 
"When applying this section the zones shall be taken into account" means that the specific requirements for equipment in zones shall be applied where necessary.

701.411.3.3 should be read to mean what it says. RCD protection for all final circuits in a location containing a bath or a shower.

If the lights were outside of the zone, you could fit lights that were not IP rated to IPX4, but they would still have to be RCD protected. I would fit bathroom suitable downlights above a bath or a shower in all occasions though regardless of height.
701.411.3.3 should, why should ,
The fittings are outside of the zone
So it the ceiling was 4 metres high you would still think.it's in the zone
 
When I read 701.32.1 'General' it says that "When applying this section, the zones specified in 701.32.2 to 4 shall be taken into account...."

So.... if the ceiling is above 2.25m or outside the zones, then that means that things like downlighters arenot in the location containing the bath or shower and therefore the requirements for additional protection by RCD (701.411.3.3) are not needed?

Have I read this right? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?!

In this instance I needed the RCD for other reasons anyway, but had I just been doing the lights, would it have been okay to simply replace the old fitting with the new downlights?

Thanks for your advice guys/gals.
The 2nd paragraph says they are outside the zone surely

Dingle, you've said they are not in the 'location'. They are in the 'location' but they are not in the 'zones'. The 'location' is the whole room so IMO 701.411.3.3 applies as it states RCD protection for the 'location', not for equipment in the 'zones'.
 
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