rcd or not

[pablo4321]

Hi all going to a job in a church hall today the guy has asked me to install a disabled alarm for toilet also hand wash heater and a also a light and radiator all in the toilet all will be on fused spur so fixed equip my question is do all these need to be rcd protection its from a 3 phase supply

 

[telectrix]

if the installation is used by " skilled or instructed persons" no need for RCD protection, but , depending on your expert opinion, might be advisable to fit one. CYA.

 

[pablo4321]

It gets used by the public and so they would use the toilet but there are no sockets in there,if i need one what would be the best way to go thanks for your reply.

 

[telectrix]

either fit RCBOs, or install a sub-main with RCD and MCBs for new equipment.

 

[londonlec]

if the installation is used by " skilled or instructed persons" no need for RCD protection, but , depending on your expert opinion, might be advisable to fit one. CYA.

Why would it make a difference if they wern't skilled or instructed?

 

[mogga]

Why would it make a difference if they wern't skilled or instructed?

Your havin a girraffe askin this arent you?

 

[kenny james]

have you taken your 17th edition regs? if not worth buying to read up on it

 

[Deleted member 26818]

there's no particular requirement in BS7671 for either the equipment or the circuits to be provided with 30mA RCD protection.
It may be that the cables will require additional protection if they are to be concealled in walls.
Where the method of additional protection would entail the provision of 30mA RCD protection, this can be omitted if the installation is under the control/supervision of a skilled or instructed person.

 

[londonlec]

Where was socket outlets mentioned? Where was buried in the wall mentioned?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Where was socket outlets mentioned? Where was buried in the wall mentioned?

Exactly.

 

[wade88]

Im just installing a new board and decided, although the operators who will be operating the machinery in question are considered to be "skilled" to some degree - i believe they are all a bunch of numptys, an opinion concreted after finding one of them poking a 3 phase thermo regulator control panel with a screwdriver (not even a vde one) shouting "why isnt it working" - so i have decided to fit an 100A RCCB incomer....just in case.

 

[Smudge]

i work in a factory with highly trained and skilled operatives*, but we try and fit rcd's/rcbos wherever we can. Overkill? possibly. Expensive? definetaly. More for piece of mind rather than wondering if they will find a way to abuse the intended set up (they very rarely fail to dissapoint).

*numpties.

 

[wade88]

Exactly my stance on the place im at. Never underestimate the stupidity of someone determined to be stupid

 

[Smudge]

I've also been to a call out where a d.b. had blown it's incoming fuses.

What had actually happened, is an operator had managed to spill some of the product on it (brown sticky food stuff), and instead of leaving it, or giving it a little wipe, he gave it a short sharp blast with the pressure washer. He no longer works here (although surprisingly, he is still alive).

 

[dwardy]

RCBO's are cheap, if in doubt fit it. If its a managed building you dont need it but, if its going to be used by the public it could be vandalized. better safe than sorry

 

[netblindpaul]

Don't start allowing to ensure that the equipment is safe for out of hours vandals, as there is no statute law that requires this and TBH if an out of hours vandal is killed by an electric shock then that can only ever be a good thing.

 

[Knobhead]

HeHe Paul, I like that.

Judge: “The equipment was not sufficiently protected against vandals”. “How do you plead?”
Defendant: “Not guilty your honour”. “The vandal failed to perform a safe isolation before ripping out the wiring”.

 

[netblindpaul]

Tony, this is one thing we can totally agree on then!
I have heard it asked if the equipment will cause harm to anyone who chooses to vandalise it, and another case where the client was investigating having their external lighting switched back on in case trespassers or potential thieves were injured when on their private fenced off property!

 

[Knobhead]

You’ve just reminded me of something that happened years back at the foundry. I’d been off site and on returning I noticed all the lights for the stock ground were off. The contactor for them was in the workshop so that was my first port of call, all OK. Off for a drive around the stock ground, each of the lighting tower isolators were turned off ? ? ? ? Continued my wandering around and came across a van with the back tyres shredded, it was going nowhere. Neither was the driver, he’d broken his leg falling over a piece of scrap. Had great pleasure radioing security to get the police, Oh and by the way call the ambulance please.

The daft thing was, my workshop was the only place with a clear view of the stock ground and I wasn’t in there. If they’d left the lights on they would have been safe!

I’ve had pickies come in to the workshop trying to flog stainless steel they’ve just nicked from our scrap piles. They look confused when they get thanked for sorting the SS out of our scrap as we don’t want it, it screws up the metal mix.